PlecoDict 1.0 Bug Report Thread
- Thread starter mikelove
- Start date
Judy said:
Oh you're right!!!! It's there!!!!
I spoke too soon. What's there IS only the demo, and furthermore every time I click on it it crashes my Palm, have to do a reset.
I am convinced the problem is with the ABC.pdb file. When I look at it using ZFile, it tells me it is "archived" and when I check the "database attributes" it says "backup." Is that correct?
Did you install your keyfile? The newest one, downloaded after you ordered the ABC? The archived/backup settings shouldn't make any difference. Go into the "Ordering" screen - which dictionaries are listed as paid and which as demo versions?
But regardless, that crash definitely shouldn't be happening... I shudder to think at the steps needed to reproduce your configuration here, but we'll see what we can do.
But regardless, that crash definitely shouldn't be happening... I shudder to think at the steps needed to reproduce your configuration here, but we'll see what we can do.
You're very welcome. (I was just in the process of writing another post encouraging you to do that very thing)
But I'm so sorry this process proved to be such a hassle - I'm starting to think that we should make the SD card version the primary way we sell the ABC/NWP (or at least a strongly recommended one), we wouldn't want many other people to have to go through what you've had to.
But I'm so sorry this process proved to be such a hassle - I'm starting to think that we should make the SD card version the primary way we sell the ABC/NWP (or at least a strongly recommended one), we wouldn't want many other people to have to go through what you've had to.
Mike,
a small note about installing dictionary files to SD cards and which directory to choose -- I didn't mentioned this before since I thought I made some mistake, but now as people are seeming to have the same problem I would like to drop this note...
Somewhere during the 0.8x versions I installed my (paid) dictionary files to /PALM/LAUNCHER on the SD card. However, PlecoDict never managed to pick them up (for whatever reason :shock: - the settings were correct). I basically resorted to creating a new directory /PALM/Programs/PlecoDict and checked the preference's settings. After that all versions of PlecoDict so far never had any problems picking up the dictionaries stored on my SD card.
a small note about installing dictionary files to SD cards and which directory to choose -- I didn't mentioned this before since I thought I made some mistake, but now as people are seeming to have the same problem I would like to drop this note...
Somewhere during the 0.8x versions I installed my (paid) dictionary files to /PALM/LAUNCHER on the SD card. However, PlecoDict never managed to pick them up (for whatever reason :shock: - the settings were correct). I basically resorted to creating a new directory /PALM/Programs/PlecoDict and checked the preference's settings. After that all versions of PlecoDict so far never had any problems picking up the dictionaries stored on my SD card.
Hi all,
It seems that installing this new version is a problem for many people... :?
First of all, I have been using the beta versions, and I already registered the application and the dictionaries (this may have impacts on what happend or did not happened to me).
Unfortunatly, the manual integrates only "basic" procedures, I would say: the procedures when you install the dictionary the first time.
I think that there should be somewhere on the Pleco web site, hints to install properly the application and dictionaries, so that people do not have problems (or have less...).
For instance, tell people to first remove completly the previous version: a result of this will be that old handwriting recognition files will be removed, and RAM space will be saved. I personally decided to do that first, using unistall manager, so that everythink (?) was deleted, even the MS card was cleaned.
After doing that, I installed everything except the dictionaries : radical and font databases went on the MS card, the other in the RAM.
Then I imported the dictionary files, using DataImport (Clie version of the CardExport from Softick), and stored them in the /palm/program/plecodict directory. This is much quicker than hotsync!!!!
I then launched the program, and it was unable to start !
I just did not installed the unlock prc file. Mike, it does not work without it !
I had to go to the "My orders" part of the web site, download the file, and install it.
I have not seen any statement about this requirement (not in the manual, neither on the web site, but I might have read too quickly).
Everything was perfect at this time (as far as I tested the dict...).
Then I installed additional dictionaries.
When typing a word (several characters) that does not exist, I had the "out of memory" message with the need to soft-reset.
I understand that when a word is not found in a particular dictionary, PlecoDict opens the next one. This might have caused the "out of memory" issue, or it might be the "unihan" dictionary issue, or both : I don't know.
I have here 2 questions :
- in this situation, is there a mean to force the order of dict opening?
- is there a mean to force PlecoDict to consider only the current dictionary, and not try to search in the other ones?
This second point will reduce "out of memory" problems. Of course, if asking to search in only one dict at a time, it shall be possible to tap on the dict icon, go to an other one, so that PlecoDict immediatly looks the same entry in that other dict.
Hope this will help ! :wink:
It seems that installing this new version is a problem for many people... :?
First of all, I have been using the beta versions, and I already registered the application and the dictionaries (this may have impacts on what happend or did not happened to me).
Unfortunatly, the manual integrates only "basic" procedures, I would say: the procedures when you install the dictionary the first time.
I think that there should be somewhere on the Pleco web site, hints to install properly the application and dictionaries, so that people do not have problems (or have less...).
For instance, tell people to first remove completly the previous version: a result of this will be that old handwriting recognition files will be removed, and RAM space will be saved. I personally decided to do that first, using unistall manager, so that everythink (?) was deleted, even the MS card was cleaned.
After doing that, I installed everything except the dictionaries : radical and font databases went on the MS card, the other in the RAM.
Then I imported the dictionary files, using DataImport (Clie version of the CardExport from Softick), and stored them in the /palm/program/plecodict directory. This is much quicker than hotsync!!!!
I then launched the program, and it was unable to start !
I just did not installed the unlock prc file. Mike, it does not work without it !
I had to go to the "My orders" part of the web site, download the file, and install it.
I have not seen any statement about this requirement (not in the manual, neither on the web site, but I might have read too quickly).
Everything was perfect at this time (as far as I tested the dict...).
Then I installed additional dictionaries.
When typing a word (several characters) that does not exist, I had the "out of memory" message with the need to soft-reset.
I understand that when a word is not found in a particular dictionary, PlecoDict opens the next one. This might have caused the "out of memory" issue, or it might be the "unihan" dictionary issue, or both : I don't know.
I have here 2 questions :
- in this situation, is there a mean to force the order of dict opening?
- is there a mean to force PlecoDict to consider only the current dictionary, and not try to search in the other ones?
This second point will reduce "out of memory" problems. Of course, if asking to search in only one dict at a time, it shall be possible to tap on the dict icon, go to an other one, so that PlecoDict immediatly looks the same entry in that other dict.
Hope this will help ! :wink:
I'm starting to think that we should make the SD card version the primary way we sell the ABC/NWP (or at least a strongly recommended one), we wouldn't want many other people to have to go through what you've had to.[/quote]
That would be one way to go, but of course not everyone will need to use an SD card anyway. For those who do, I recommend having a separate PDF file of instructions, emphasizing (1) that they will probably not be able to load the ABC Dict. to card via Hotsync, that they have to use a card reader or a program like CardInstall, and (2) that they must manually create the proper directories (Macspeak: folders) on the SD card themselves, and put the files in the proper place. Never having used a card before, I had no idea of these things, or I thought the software would create the proper directories. And I don't know how you would create these directories if you didn't use a card reader and have the thing mounted on your desktop; maybe that could also be explained.
In any case, I'm going to print out your instructions and save them in case I ever have to reinstall! Or would a hotsync back everything up in a way that would remember the proper place?
That would be one way to go, but of course not everyone will need to use an SD card anyway. For those who do, I recommend having a separate PDF file of instructions, emphasizing (1) that they will probably not be able to load the ABC Dict. to card via Hotsync, that they have to use a card reader or a program like CardInstall, and (2) that they must manually create the proper directories (Macspeak: folders) on the SD card themselves, and put the files in the proper place. Never having used a card before, I had no idea of these things, or I thought the software would create the proper directories. And I don't know how you would create these directories if you didn't use a card reader and have the thing mounted on your desktop; maybe that could also be explained.
In any case, I'm going to print out your instructions and save them in case I ever have to reinstall! Or would a hotsync back everything up in a way that would remember the proper place?
Hi Judy,
(1) You are right: hotsync-ing more than 10Mo might be dangerous to try... This might be stated somewhere. But again, when related to data files, the CardExport, DataImport, ....or what so ever method is much better.
I did a comparison with a 15Mo file: hotsync was approximatly 30 minutes, and direct export 1 or 2!
(2) There is no absolute need to create a directory. You can put PlecoDict files in the /palm/launcher directory, which I believe is created when you format the sd (palm) or ms (sony clie) card.
The only issue is that if you have many programs using the external card, searching a file among many others will be longer than if you store them in a program-dedicated directory.
(1) You are right: hotsync-ing more than 10Mo might be dangerous to try... This might be stated somewhere. But again, when related to data files, the CardExport, DataImport, ....or what so ever method is much better.
I did a comparison with a 15Mo file: hotsync was approximatly 30 minutes, and direct export 1 or 2!
(2) There is no absolute need to create a directory. You can put PlecoDict files in the /palm/launcher directory, which I believe is created when you format the sd (palm) or ms (sony clie) card.
The only issue is that if you have many programs using the external card, searching a file among many others will be longer than if you store them in a program-dedicated directory.
haraldalbrecht - thanks for the info, though I'm not sure why this wouldn't have come up in our testing. It may be related to a bug we fixed a while ago which could sometimes screw up VFS file searches - it most often affected the /Applications directory but it could sometimes have made a difference with other searches as well.
herve - thanks for the detailed posting. We probably could have done a better job about documenting the upgrade procedure from the beta versions - the beta users may have been a relatively small group, but you guys are among our best customers and we should have made the extra effort. The keyfile certainly shouldn't be required for the program to start... what happened when it wasn't installed? What error message did you get?
Did the "out of memory" message talk about the cache? "can't evict cache entry" or something like that? That would at least link it to the probelms that other people have been having... it's highly unlikely that loading too many dictionaries would cause you to run out of memory, actually, since each dictionary only requires 30K or so of memory to store its basic settings in RAM, so this bug is probably related to something else that's just manifesting itself as an out-of-memory error.
There's no way to force the dictionaries to open in a particular order (though there probably should be) or to only consider the currently-selected dictionary (again, there should be, and it would actually be very easy to add), but as I said, it's unlikely that the dictionary cycling would be responsible for this error.
herve - yes, it's normal, the icon system is kind of stupid and just checks the dictionary's ID against a list of dictionaries with icons built into the PlecoDict application. And we only got around to adding one for Unihan. But this could certainly be fixed once we get through these other bugs...
Judy - I agree, but it's kind of tricky since different Palms do this in different ways. Installing to the card via a HotSync works beautifully on the Treo 650 / T5 / E2, since they've been designed to do that well, while it's completely impossible to install the ABC dictionary to the internal memory of those devices because they're limited to a maximum file size of 10MB (at least for files installed there by a HotSync). Whereas with a Tungsten E, installing to internal memory *should* work (even if it didn't in your case) but installing directly to the card can be very slow and awkward. Throw in the numerous other variations (like the Sony Clie's, which have their own built-in drive-mounting utility that works slightly differently from the one on the T5/LifeDrive and requires special drivers) and you end up with one very long and confusing instruction file. The nice thing about the SD card version is that it's pretty much the same experience for everyone, or at least everyone with a Palm/palmOne model.
Of course if PalmSource had just made a little effort to ensure that software installation worked consistently and well across the whole range of Palm OS handhelds, this wouldn't be a problem... Microsoft for all their faults does much better than Palm in this regard, and one of the things I'm looking forward to most about putting out a Pocket PC version of PlecoDict is not having to deal with quite so much installation-related malarkey.
What we really might want to do is add the option of going back to the old Oxford E&C system of multiple data files - in PlecoDict, the data that used to go in those takes up half of a typical dictionary database (since we do a lot more indexing), and if we shuffled things around smartly we could probably turn a single 17 MB file into an 8 MB file and three 3 MB ones. That might at least make this a little easier for most Palms to digest.
Anyway, thanks for the feedback, and again I'm sorry that upgrading has turned out to be such a nightmare for some of you.
herve - thanks for the detailed posting. We probably could have done a better job about documenting the upgrade procedure from the beta versions - the beta users may have been a relatively small group, but you guys are among our best customers and we should have made the extra effort. The keyfile certainly shouldn't be required for the program to start... what happened when it wasn't installed? What error message did you get?
Did the "out of memory" message talk about the cache? "can't evict cache entry" or something like that? That would at least link it to the probelms that other people have been having... it's highly unlikely that loading too many dictionaries would cause you to run out of memory, actually, since each dictionary only requires 30K or so of memory to store its basic settings in RAM, so this bug is probably related to something else that's just manifesting itself as an out-of-memory error.
There's no way to force the dictionaries to open in a particular order (though there probably should be) or to only consider the currently-selected dictionary (again, there should be, and it would actually be very easy to add), but as I said, it's unlikely that the dictionary cycling would be responsible for this error.
herve - yes, it's normal, the icon system is kind of stupid and just checks the dictionary's ID against a list of dictionaries with icons built into the PlecoDict application. And we only got around to adding one for Unihan. But this could certainly be fixed once we get through these other bugs...
Judy - I agree, but it's kind of tricky since different Palms do this in different ways. Installing to the card via a HotSync works beautifully on the Treo 650 / T5 / E2, since they've been designed to do that well, while it's completely impossible to install the ABC dictionary to the internal memory of those devices because they're limited to a maximum file size of 10MB (at least for files installed there by a HotSync). Whereas with a Tungsten E, installing to internal memory *should* work (even if it didn't in your case) but installing directly to the card can be very slow and awkward. Throw in the numerous other variations (like the Sony Clie's, which have their own built-in drive-mounting utility that works slightly differently from the one on the T5/LifeDrive and requires special drivers) and you end up with one very long and confusing instruction file. The nice thing about the SD card version is that it's pretty much the same experience for everyone, or at least everyone with a Palm/palmOne model.
Of course if PalmSource had just made a little effort to ensure that software installation worked consistently and well across the whole range of Palm OS handhelds, this wouldn't be a problem... Microsoft for all their faults does much better than Palm in this regard, and one of the things I'm looking forward to most about putting out a Pocket PC version of PlecoDict is not having to deal with quite so much installation-related malarkey.
What we really might want to do is add the option of going back to the old Oxford E&C system of multiple data files - in PlecoDict, the data that used to go in those takes up half of a typical dictionary database (since we do a lot more indexing), and if we shuffled things around smartly we could probably turn a single 17 MB file into an 8 MB file and three 3 MB ones. That might at least make this a little easier for most Palms to digest.
Anyway, thanks for the feedback, and again I'm sorry that upgrading has turned out to be such a nightmare for some of you.
"out of memory" error :
The message is the following :
PlecoDB.cpp, Line:785, Can't find cache entry to evict - your palm has likely run out of memory, delete some files and try again
Vous devez red?marrer l'ordinateur de poche........
The second part is in french and ask for a soft reset.
This does not occur when the unihan dictionary is removed.
Does it help you ?
The message is the following :
PlecoDB.cpp, Line:785, Can't find cache entry to evict - your palm has likely run out of memory, delete some files and try again
Vous devez red?marrer l'ordinateur de poche........
The second part is in french and ask for a soft reset.
This does not occur when the unihan dictionary is removed.
Does it help you ?
Whereas with a Tungsten E, installing to internal memory *should* work (even if it didn't in your case) but installing directly to the card can be very slow and awkward.
Well, I was able to install it to internal memory. But the name did not show up on the "copy" menu so I couldn't copy it to the card. The name still does not show up anywhere -- if I look at the "card" on the Tungsten screen the only program it admits is there is PlecoDict. So if I wanted to move or delete any other files (without the card reader) I couldn't.
No matter, it's working great, and is a superb piece of software. I love it. Worth all the trouble.
Well, I was able to install it to internal memory. But the name did not show up on the "copy" menu so I couldn't copy it to the card. The name still does not show up anywhere -- if I look at the "card" on the Tungsten screen the only program it admits is there is PlecoDict. So if I wanted to move or delete any other files (without the card reader) I couldn't.
No matter, it's working great, and is a superb piece of software. I love it. Worth all the trouble.
A
Anonymous
Guest
" ~ " / navigator
Hi
DA mode is my principal mode of using the dictionary - scroll bar with navigator still a problem ,and more annoyingly, " ~ " is still missing from Chinese sentences in the ABC dic DA mode - so every example sentence is a small puzzle.
Installation was trouble-free (except for unihan related crashes)
Thanks Paul
Hi
DA mode is my principal mode of using the dictionary - scroll bar with navigator still a problem ,and more annoyingly, " ~ " is still missing from Chinese sentences in the ABC dic DA mode - so every example sentence is a small puzzle.
Installation was trouble-free (except for unihan related crashes)
Thanks Paul
paul - it sounds like the 1.0 upgrade didn't install correctly; we definitely fixed those two problems, I'm staring at Instant Access on my Treo right now and the navigator works and tildes are appearing like they're supposed to. Try installing the PlecoDict application program again; if that doesn't fix it, which model of Palm OS handheld is this and which Chinese OS are you using PlecoDict with?
And Judy - we were planning to add a file copier utility to PlecoDict but (as was the case with a lot of things we wanted to do) we simply ran out of time. Anyway, I'm glad to hear everything is working smoothly now.
And Judy - we were planning to add a file copier utility to PlecoDict but (as was the case with a lot of things we wanted to do) we simply ran out of time. Anyway, I'm glad to hear everything is working smoothly now.
A
Anonymous
Guest
DA Chinese punctuation problem with ABC
DA Chinese punctuation problem with ABC
Reinstallation after deletion of application (on pc and pda) did not rectify DA punctuation problem with ABC. (I originally deleted ALL dictionary/data files before installation of new version).
(I am using CJKOS 4.5 (ROM) with Zire 71)
The tilde is shown in full program mode for Ox and ABC, but when in DA mode, the tilde (AND Chinese full stop are not visible in ABC (but ARE in Ox) within the CHINESE CHARACTER EXAMPLES. They are visible within the accompanying pinyin sentences.
You may get some further clue from this: when I tried to copy and paste a full entry from the main application showing full punctuation, it too was devoid of tildes and Chinese stops.
Down navigation in DA for large entries, eg QU4 is still misbehaving - it jumps up after releasing the button.
Cheers Paul
DA Chinese punctuation problem with ABC
Reinstallation after deletion of application (on pc and pda) did not rectify DA punctuation problem with ABC. (I originally deleted ALL dictionary/data files before installation of new version).
(I am using CJKOS 4.5 (ROM) with Zire 71)
The tilde is shown in full program mode for Ox and ABC, but when in DA mode, the tilde (AND Chinese full stop are not visible in ABC (but ARE in Ox) within the CHINESE CHARACTER EXAMPLES. They are visible within the accompanying pinyin sentences.
You may get some further clue from this: when I tried to copy and paste a full entry from the main application showing full punctuation, it too was devoid of tildes and Chinese stops.
Down navigation in DA for large entries, eg QU4 is still misbehaving - it jumps up after releasing the button.
Cheers Paul
OK, we've managed to reproduce the tilde half of this now - that should be fixed in 1.0.1. But I'm not so sure about the bouncing navigator problem - we have yet to see this on any system here. Are you using any other system add-ons besides CJKOS? Anything that might be keyed to button presses on your Palm?
A
Anonymous
Guest
navigator in DA
I thought I saw another posting referring to this problem some time ago. Perhaps mistaken.
I do not have navigator problem with any other program/text reader/DA application.
I am not aware of any program which would obviously suggest itself as a source of trouble here.
(I was using Clippro but had to deactivate it because of conflict with new version. Prior version was not causing crashes. Also have Penpower (ROM) but not active - very happy with your new recognizer!)
Glad the absent tilde wasn't just a recurring figment of my imagination!
Thanks Paul
I thought I saw another posting referring to this problem some time ago. Perhaps mistaken.
I do not have navigator problem with any other program/text reader/DA application.
I am not aware of any program which would obviously suggest itself as a source of trouble here.
(I was using Clippro but had to deactivate it because of conflict with new version. Prior version was not causing crashes. Also have Penpower (ROM) but not active - very happy with your new recognizer!)
Glad the absent tilde wasn't just a recurring figment of my imagination!
Thanks Paul
I have to soft reset, when importing flashcards from the Ox C&E dictionary. I'm wondering if it's because I don't have the C&E dictionary installed. I'm using the the other two new bigger dictionaries (can't remember their names).
Any suggestions on how to get this text file imported?
Any suggestions on how to get this text file imported?