Pleco Flashcard System vs. Anki

[cowabunga]

Hey Y'all,

Wondering how people compare Anki to Pleco flashcards. I've looked briefly at threads to no avail, and Reddit didn't help me.

My situation: I'm heavily invested as a user in Anki. I haven't yet tried migrating to Pleco's, but a few concerns/questions I had:

1. Pleco's flashcard interface looked outdated (not a concern in itself unless it's representative of the system elsewhere) (indeed Anki's iOS app is as well)
2. Pleco shows only two response options (i.e., 'know' or 'don't know', as opposed to 4 options with Anki)
   1. perhaps both platforms allow you to increase/decrease response options?
3. I prefer desktop, e.g., b/c my phone screen is small/my eyes get tired quickly, + studying generally is better suited to laptop - I spend a lot of my time flash-carding currently.
   1. Surely other people are like this, but then how do you manage with Pleco? Mobile/andriod emulator on desktop?
4. In Pleco, can you transfer bookmarks categories to their own flashcard decks, as well as combine bookmark categories into one flashcard deck?
5. How customizable are the Pleco flashcards?
   1. Drag and drop/fill-in the blank, written response options, etc.?
6. Please feel free to add other things I've missed of unique value that either Anki or Pleco have that the other doesn't (or has of lesser quality).

- Seeing my stats is just a nice bonus to me, but I see people think Anki wins here.

I know asking in a Pleco forum is going to slant the responses, so where possible, do try to counter any biases.
Cheers!

 

[Ledu]

Hey Cowabunga,

For #2 go to flashcards>New test>Scoring>Prompt for Recall Quality (just like Anki)

Personally I don't do that, I either know it, or I dont. But up to you.

I have used Anki before for another language. I prefer Pleco for Chinese though.

Pros for Pleco Flashcards：
－I have many dictionairies on my phone (12+ Chinese Proverbs).
－I can quickly make a category for "daily life vocab" and then easily make a flashcard deck/category from it.
-I actually prefer not using my laptop. I can't see how people can read a book on a desktop or laptop. And I think using Anki causes people to study on their desktop/laptop versus other ways.
-In some ways using Pleco for creating flashcards seems simplier to me than Anki and saves me more time because the bells and whistles are not there.
-If I want to make a split deck (say 50 cards) and study those in random without using SRS, I know how to do this quickly.
-Having a Reader+Ability to instantly create a flashcard deck is very nice. I can read on my tablet a Chinese book one day, and at the same time add unknown words to a flashcard category. You can't do this with Anki.
-There is something simple about it that is beneficial.
-I don't spend 8 hours making flashcards. I am not aiming to make a flashcard with animations, video, etc. I make a text file, it syncs with audio, done.
-I now have the Outlier add-on which does help as I can instantly look up a character and study it as I am doing flashcards.

Cons:
-For Android, the cards on my flashcard progress on my phone doesn't sync with my Pleco app on my tablet. I can sync this manually though. So what ends up happening is I use Pleco on my phone mainly and less so on my tablet. The tablet will be for future reading in English/Chinese.
-The Stats page could be more interactive and engaging but I am ok with it. In comparison with Anki there are all sorts of plugins to change how your stats are displayed. The only numbers that matter to me are how many I learn per day on average (over a period of time) and how many I now know versus yesterday.
-I do think some sort of "rainbow" feature could be added. I have this on my fitness tracker and Duolingo basically has this as you complete each lesson. It is a weird thing but it does stimulate the mind.
-It is very challenging to setup. I feel like Forrest Gump lots of times. But once you understand it a little, it is smooth.


I think even if I was trying to learn Japanese, I'd try to use something like Pleco versus Anki. I like the simplicity of making cards, the time I save and the portability of having everything on one device. There might be some integrations and plugins with Anki that I am not aware of.

 

[mikelove]

If you already own our flashcard add-on (or a bundle that includes it), Pleco 4.0 actually has an entire Anki emulation mode - you can even import Anki files - so if you want to try the beta of that (sign up on the main page at pleco.com) that might make your experiments easier.

Philosophically, the key differences are that a) since Pleco assumes everything you're studying is a Chinese word, a lot of the things that are configured on a note type / deck basis in Anki are basic built-in test settings, b) Pleco is more agnostic as far as study methods (you don't have to use SRS at all), and c) we don't differentiate between 'notes' and 'cards', but instead give you a variety of options for how to study words on a particular test (can rotate between 'sides', change which side is shown based on the current interval, etc).

As far as your specific questions:

Pleco's flashcard interface looked outdated (not a concern in itself unless it's representative of the system elsewhere) (indeed Anki's iOS app is as well)

The system hasn't been significant updated since we debuted that interface, but algorithmically it's still the same basic idea as Anki + most other apps, the theory behind SRS hasn't changed a whole lot in 10 years. (4.0 has a new interface + new internals though)

Pleco shows only two response options (i.e., 'know' or 'don't know', as opposed to 4 options with Anki)

1. perhaps both platforms allow you to increase/decrease response options?

Yes, if you switch to the built-in 'spaced repetition' profile or manually turn on 'prompt for answer quality' in New Test / Scoring that will give you more options (6).

prefer desktop, e.g., b/c my phone screen is small/my eyes get tired quickly, + studying generally is better suited to laptop - I spend a lot of my time flash-carding currently.

1. Surely other people are like this, but then how do you manage with Pleco? Mobile/andriod emulator on desktop?

We don't currently offer a desktop version or a desktop sync feature though we're working on that.

In Pleco, can you transfer bookmarks categories to their own flashcard decks, as well as combine bookmark categories into one flashcard deck?

Yes - we don't enforce one-deck-per-card like Anki does, you can move/copy cards between categories however you like and the same card can be in multiple categories and you can start a test based on any combination of categories.

How customizable are the Pleco flashcards?

1. Drag and drop/fill-in the blank, written response options, etc.?

We support fill-in-the-blanks and multi-choice tests, but that's configured in the test settings, not in individual cards.

 

[cowabunga]

I can't see how people can read a book on a desktop or laptop. And I think using Anki causes people to study on their desktop/laptop versus other ways.

I agree on both. The only reason I use my laptop is because carrying around books is impractical for me at this time. I would prefer books, or rather a tablet actually.

study those in random without using SRS

If I may ask, what might be the benefit in not using SRS?

Having a Reader

This is a feature that initially I didn't understand, probably because I don't read on my small phone. But I'll have to look into it. It wouldn't happen to double as a web browser in addition to a file reader would it? I just rarely read files as opposed to online content (although I should more now that I've downloaded a few graded readers).

I make a text file, it syncs with audio, done.

Indeed. I was curious though how far I can take Pleco flashcards, as I've read of the benefits of these differing kinds of recall (e.g., written response, etc.), especially for things like grammar learning.

-It is very challenging to setup.

This is the same for Anki more or less, but I'm now used to it having gone through that initial learning curve. And everything is easier on a larger screen (my phone is smaller than most new ones).so

so if you want to try the beta of that (sign up on the main page at pleco.com) that might make your experiments easier.

sounds excellent, thank you Mike. Thank you kindly for your thorough response, very impressed that you manage to do this so consistently for forum users. I like the sounds of this.

One problem I've had, probably answered elsewhere: I can't figure out how to add a dictionary entry into multiple bookmark categories. The drop down menu under the + sign (using iOS) gives me various options but I'm not exactly sure what they all do.

 

[Shun]

One problem I've had, probably answered elsewhere: I can't figure out how to add a dictionary entry into multiple bookmark categories. The drop down menu under the + sign (using iOS) gives me various options but I'm not exactly sure what they all do.

Hi cowabunga,

you can do this easily in the 4.0 beta by tap-holding the "+" button, choosing "Multiple", and checking off the categories you'd like your cards to go into:

In Pleco 3.2, you could add a card to one of the categories you want it to be in, then go into its Card Info and tap on the green "+" symbol to add it to more categories.

As far as I know, you can do this only with previously added cards. If you wish to add all new cards to multiple categories henceforth, that probably isn't possible on Pleco 3.2, and for Pleco 4.0, I'm not sure. Perhaps then it's best to add the cards to a single category first, and when you're done, copy them all at once to the other categories using the Organize Flashcards screen.

Hope this helps,

Shun

 

[Ledu]

Hi Cowabunga,

I just downloaded a bunch of pdfs so in order to annotate and read I will have to use a laptop or tablet.

I think owning a tablet and having all your books on there (especially with easy access to Pleco) is better than even looking at a physical book. An issue is you can't highlight in yellow a word on the Pleco Reader. So say you are reading a graded reader and the first time you highlight a word, the second time you read it you feel good because you recognize that word. With a physical book you can keep this progress, also with a pdf editor that allows annotation. So a tablet/laptop can be best for annotating as you read a Chinese text. You would have to read outside the Pleco Reader to annotate. Jnotes for the tablet and Foxit PDF Reader are what I am using for my laptop (both free). I have no idea what such "free" resources are doing to my devices though lol.

For not using SRS:
You can use a card filter for vocab (0-100) and drill multiple times the difficult words you previously studied using your SRS profile. By setting a profile to random and scoring to NONE it won't affect your SRS system. So being able to study certain words and then test yourself on them many times. I let the SRS profile dictate daily what I now know or test me. But using a separate drilling profile allows me to study and learn in more detail.

If I understood components at a foundational level, I might not need to drill as often. I plan to study "Remembering the Hanzi 1&2". Too many books on the shelf to get to first though. Some have reported knowing 1500 characters in one year through that method though.

I ring my mop bucket 4x when mopping. So why not go through every textbook I am on 4x? I will also do all exercises. Why not get as much "juice" as you can from your textbook. Alternatively if you believe in the "immersion method", you might not even do the exercises and grab another textbook.

There have been studies that individual flashcard study can lead to implicit knowledge. This was done by a colleague of Paul Nation so of course they are going to say go ahead and get graded readers too. Paul Nation is her boss. Rather than fiddle with an app, I'd rather pay and get a vocab book which will have exercises to reinforce vocabulary learning and implementation. Buy a vocab book, open it and no need to spend hours making cloze fill in the gaps exercises. I view doing textbook exercises as a form of a test. Just like you would encounter on Anki/Pleco.

If Anki is easier, do that. You may feel as you start to use Pleco dictionaries more that you may use Anki less. Some people are reading on the desktops/laptops and don't use Pleco dictionaries at all. I have a non-Kindle e-reader and if I wanted to read Chinese, I'd have to flip to the Pleco dictionary screen which takes some time (lag). However, on my android tablet, I can read using the Pleco Reader itself and it is much faster than my e-reader. Also flashcard integration. For yourself, getting an Apple tablet may be better for viewing larger text and will integrate/sync with your iPhone. Otherwise, use Anki and your laptop/desktop.

What level are you? Do you plan to test yourself? No need to buy this and buy that, monthly subscriptions. We are comrades learning Chinese. As my long rant shows products almost control the methods and devices that we use to learn and read. Use one device and you can't use something else. What is the best way to find freedom from those controls? How can using technology help us ? I am still searching and open to suggestions. Thanks.

 

[cowabunga]

you can't highlight in yellow a word on the Pleco Reader.

@mikelove is this something that could be added? I'm sure its' already been discussed. Otherwise, perhaps the best way is just to switch between Pleco and whatever app one uses to read/highlight/study Chinese text.

If I understood components at a foundational level, I might not need to drill as often. I plan to study "Remembering the Hanzi 1&2". Too many books on the shelf to get to first though. Some have reported knowing 1500 characters in one year through that method though.

I came across this book/Heisig. I think it's basically the same thing that Olle Linge advocates if I'm remember correctly, expect instead of making one's own visual stories, they give you them... (?) unsure. Also unsure of its effectiveness, but it's good to hear other's experiences with it.

What level are you? Do you plan to test yourself?

I'm probably about HSK2, so not very far. My speaking is far better than my listening, which is probably around my reading ability (that's within just one textbook more or less so far), and my writing is maybe 10 characters max.

Thanks for all the help and insights guys!

 

[mikelove]

@mikelove is this something that could be added? I'm sure its' already been discussed. Otherwise, perhaps the best way is just to switch between Pleco and whatever app one uses to read/highlight/study Chinese text.

It's already supported in 4.0, though the default highlight color is currently red (but maybe should be yellow to avoid overlap with tone colors).

 

[Leriot]

A bit off topic here, but since srs was mentioned, I've been using fsrs on anki for other subjects than Chinese and have been happy with it's performance.

Are there any plans with implementing srs algorithms? The anki implementation is a bit more difficult, as you need functionality to generate parameters based on your performance after a certain amount of review.

 

[mikelove]

It wouldn't be hard for us to add FSRS to our Anki emulator, it doesn't actually do much on the Anki side - very minor algorithm tweaks to use these extra parameters. (we might even be able to find a way to run a similar model locally to take the server stuff out of it)

In general, though, I remain unconvinced that algorithmic SRS is necessary or even helpful for language learning, particularly not the kind we're steering you towards in Pleco where you're exposed to a lot of real-world language and hence hopefully encountering most of your long-interval words more often than the system would show them to you. So for strictly competitive reasons I'm happy to add anything I need to add to catch up to what Anki or whoever are doing, but for myself, it's not something I particularly believe in or feel much of an impulse to spend time on beyond that.

 

[cowabunga]

It wouldn't be hard for us to add FSRS to our Anki emulator, it doesn't actually do much on the Anki side - very minor algorithm tweaks to use these extra parameters. (we might even be able to find a way to run a similar model locally to take the server stuff out of it)

In general, though, I remain unconvinced that algorithmic SRS is necessary or even helpful for language learning, particularly not the kind we're steering you towards in Pleco where you're exposed to a lot of real-world language and hence hopefully encountering most of your long-interval words more often than the system would show them to you. So for strictly competitive reasons I'm happy to add anything I need to add to catch up to what Anki or whoever are doing, but for myself, it's not something I particularly believe in or feel much of an impulse to spend time on beyond that.

@mikelove Re SRS: this intrigued me quite a bit as someone still trying to wrap my head around how best to learn characters before I’m too deep into the Chinese learning journey. Are the articles or resources you could link to that explain more of what you’re talking about Mike? What methods if any do you recommend? Your wealth of knowledge and experience here I gather would be of tremendous value and insight.

Maybe you’ve seen the discussions, but I’ve been mostly listening to Olle Linge’s advice, having checked out plenty of other methods, resources (paid and free). I’m doing lots of SRS but I fear like he says, it’s not long-term memory. But I’a bit confused and/or intimidated by the alternative and seemingly more effective ‘mnemonic pictures/stories’ approach. I’ve instead been trying to memorize the radicals (thru SRS), and this has definitely helped sound in understanding/distinguishing more and more characters.

Happy to explain more if helpful.

Cheers!

 

[mikelove]

I don't have any articles to point to handy, sorry - I came to my conclusions about long-term memory about 10 years ago and I haven't seen anything since that's contradicted them. Basically I feel like to the extent that there's a "point" to algorithmic flashcards, it's more about optimizing the user's sense of satisfaction / "flow" - having them recognize most of the cards they see - rather than some new-fangled way of hacking human memory or whatever.

Even Anki kind-of admits this nowadays, by defaulting to a system where it shows you your X most past-due cards rather than actually telling how many cards the algorithm expects you to learn today and expecting you to get through all of them (which IIRC is what SuperMemo did); if it was really designed to review cards as infrequently as possible without forgetting them, then logically, accumulating a backlog and reviewing a card a week or two late would be a serious problem.

But a core philosophical principle behind Pleco is that vocabulary and reading ability should not stand in the way of working with Chinese - the reason we have a reader function and handwriting input and so forth is to reduce the impact of those constraints; you can pick up an awful lot of Chinese without having to grind away on the hard-to-memorize bits. So I view flashcards as more of a queue / manager for new vocabulary - one little component of your larger Chinese learning journey - than as the centerpiece of the whole thing.

 

[Duan]

I've been loving the ability to plop unfamiliar words onto a flashcard from the Reader. It gives me peace of mind to keep plowing through the text and not worry the new word will get lost in the fog. Especially after getting an iPad solely for Pleco, it's been a lot of fun reading stuff that interests me but would otherwise have too many unfamiliar words. More fun than concentrating on pounding flashcards instead of reading.

 

[flameproof]

Hey Cowabunga,

For #2 go to flashcards>New test>Scoring>Prompt for Recall Quality (just like Anki)

Took me a while to figure that out:
flashcards>New test>Scoring>Scoring System>Automatic (mine was Statsd Only)
Then you can get to Prompt for Recall Quality