I've been using your software for maybe three years, now, and am pretty excited about the first PlecoDict release. Right now, however, I only use my PalmOS device (a Tungsten E) for PlecoDict. My two previous Palm PDAs, too, I only read the occasional 'plucker' document when I wasn't using your dictionary... and this is mostly fine with me, as you really do have excellent software that I know I can get plenty of use out of. Still, I've grown pretty fond of my new Symbian phone, and note that there are already touch-screen Symbian devices out there (and the upcoming 'Quartz' line of Symbian devices promises to more directly fight Palm, with PDAs-that-happen-to-also-be-cell-phones). I see some talk here about PPC (gag me with a stick, but oh well) ports; have you thought at all about Symbian support?
Symbian devices?
- Thread starter ayrnieu
- Start date
We've thought about it, but I'm not convinced that there's enough interest in one; I get several e-mails a week about a Pocket PC version, but I can count on one hand the number of e-mails I've gotten about Symbian in the last year. Even in forum posts you're vastly outnumbered.
If we start getting lots and lots of requests for a Symbian port, or if touchscreen Symbian devices start seriously taking over the market, we might consider a Symbian version, but it's not on our radar at the moment.
If we start getting lots and lots of requests for a Symbian port, or if touchscreen Symbian devices start seriously taking over the market, we might consider a Symbian version, but it's not on our radar at the moment.
I'm watching for symbian...
As ayrnieu, I would like to register interest in Symbian... I hold onto the Palm because of Oxford / Pleco Dict and the deep desire not to buy a Pocket PC. But when I got my T3 I was unbelievably dissapointed - To my way of thinking the whole mobile thing is just moving far too slowly - I walk around with far too many bits of hardware in my pockets and then they give us substandard gear - in the Korean, Japanese and Taiwan / Hong Kong mobile phone markets I'm sure they would be stunned that we cannot buy a mobile with 4 megapixel cameras. I wanted to get a Palm phone to try and save on pocket repair costs, but can't stand the buttons they insist on putting on them at the expense of the grafiti area,... I need a writing surface (although I can't stand grafiti II)
I'm hoping that someone somewhere will develop either a symbian that rocks, has a touch screen and knocks Palm out of the running, or perhaps that someone really innovative such as Apple buys Palm... (I'm not holding my breath)...
A lot of digression in my post, but maybe symbian does have something?... I love the simplicity of Palm, but this is the 21st Century, my T3 has crashed far too many times for my likeing it can hardly be considered 'stable'... and the joke that is called 'Palm Desktop'!!!
As ayrnieu, I would like to register interest in Symbian... I hold onto the Palm because of Oxford / Pleco Dict and the deep desire not to buy a Pocket PC. But when I got my T3 I was unbelievably dissapointed - To my way of thinking the whole mobile thing is just moving far too slowly - I walk around with far too many bits of hardware in my pockets and then they give us substandard gear - in the Korean, Japanese and Taiwan / Hong Kong mobile phone markets I'm sure they would be stunned that we cannot buy a mobile with 4 megapixel cameras. I wanted to get a Palm phone to try and save on pocket repair costs, but can't stand the buttons they insist on putting on them at the expense of the grafiti area,... I need a writing surface (although I can't stand grafiti II)
I'm hoping that someone somewhere will develop either a symbian that rocks, has a touch screen and knocks Palm out of the running, or perhaps that someone really innovative such as Apple buys Palm... (I'm not holding my breath)...
A lot of digression in my post, but maybe symbian does have something?... I love the simplicity of Palm, but this is the 21st Century, my T3 has crashed far too many times for my likeing it can hardly be considered 'stable'... and the joke that is called 'Palm Desktop'!!!
Well there are still quite a few negatives about Symbian. For one thing, as I think I've already mentioned, the handwriting recognizer we use on Palm and Pocket PC isn't available for Symbian (as far as I know), so we'd need to either license a new one (a pretty big undertaking if our last experience is any guide) or develop our own.
Another problem is that the future of the Symbian platform is far from certain - Nokia recently released a Linux-based device and there's a widespread rumor that they're going to dump Symbian altogether, and without Nokia I think Symbian's odds of survival are significantly below Palm's.
A better bet for us would be to develop a Java version of PlecoDict - this would work not only on Symbian but also on a number of other platforms, like the A768i that Don mentioned the other day. But there's still the handwriting recognition problem, not to mention the fact that a Java port would require a lot more work than the Pocket PC one (since we'd have to migrate all the code from C/C++ to Java). So even that would be a long way off.
And really, we'd much rather concentrate on new products and features than on new platforms, so while I can accept the need for supporting at least one platform othe than Palm, it's hard to justify supporting two, at least not until we get a lot bigger than we currently are.
Another problem is that the future of the Symbian platform is far from certain - Nokia recently released a Linux-based device and there's a widespread rumor that they're going to dump Symbian altogether, and without Nokia I think Symbian's odds of survival are significantly below Palm's.
A better bet for us would be to develop a Java version of PlecoDict - this would work not only on Symbian but also on a number of other platforms, like the A768i that Don mentioned the other day. But there's still the handwriting recognition problem, not to mention the fact that a Java port would require a lot more work than the Pocket PC one (since we'd have to migrate all the code from C/C++ to Java). So even that would be a long way off.
And really, we'd much rather concentrate on new products and features than on new platforms, so while I can accept the need for supporting at least one platform othe than Palm, it's hard to justify supporting two, at least not until we get a lot bigger than we currently are.
venture160
秀才
Hey, I am putting a vote in for a symbian version as well. I really hate windows(I am a mac user) and I hate Palm, it can't multi-task and operating system is stuck in 1995. The new Nokia E Series for business is awesome. Pleco is my buying point, so for me its a Treo 650 or a QtekS200, if there was a pleco symbian i would without question buy a sony M600 or nokia E61. Is there another good dictionary for symbian users?
The E series looks nice, but it's not really a good platform for running PlecoDict since it doesn't have a touchscreen and hence there's no way to use a handwriting recognizer with it - this is another reason why we don't support Symbian, incidentally, as the vast majority of Symbian devices (pretty much any model that's not made by Sony) don't have touchscreens. Yet another reason is that Symbian is reportedly just as buggy as Palm OS and Pocket PC (if not more so) - there may be some slight improvement in hardware quality, as Nokia still has a pretty good reputation on that front, but aside from the less Windows-like interface I don't really see any advantage to choosing Symbian over Pocket PC, and it's much much harder to write programs for Symbian.
There's also the fact that the vast majority of our sales are still to people who are buying a PDA primarily or exclusively to run our software (and hence will buy one for whatever platform we support), which tends to diminish the interest in any new platform release - the Palm OS version of PlecoDict is still outselling the Pocket PC one by quite a lot, we think because of the combination of the lower cost of Palm handhelds and the fact that our "Which Handheld Should I Buy?" page strongly recommends Palm (along with the fact that the Palm OS version is considerably easier to install). Adding on Symbian would really only get us sales from people who already own Symbians or (like yourself) can't stomach getting a Palm or Pocket PC, and there's no way those sales would cover the cost of our developing a Symbian port.
So unless our sales grow by an order of magnitude in the next few years, or Palm and/or Pocket PC completely die out and Symbian eats their marketshare, it's highly doubtful that you'll see a Symbian product from us anytime soon.
As for other Symbian Chinese dictionaries, I'm not really aware of any but perhaps someone else might be able to recommend one. In general the Symbian third-party software market seems to be a lot smaller than the Palm / Pocket PC one, so there may not be a lot of options out there.
There's also the fact that the vast majority of our sales are still to people who are buying a PDA primarily or exclusively to run our software (and hence will buy one for whatever platform we support), which tends to diminish the interest in any new platform release - the Palm OS version of PlecoDict is still outselling the Pocket PC one by quite a lot, we think because of the combination of the lower cost of Palm handhelds and the fact that our "Which Handheld Should I Buy?" page strongly recommends Palm (along with the fact that the Palm OS version is considerably easier to install). Adding on Symbian would really only get us sales from people who already own Symbians or (like yourself) can't stomach getting a Palm or Pocket PC, and there's no way those sales would cover the cost of our developing a Symbian port.
So unless our sales grow by an order of magnitude in the next few years, or Palm and/or Pocket PC completely die out and Symbian eats their marketshare, it's highly doubtful that you'll see a Symbian product from us anytime soon.
As for other Symbian Chinese dictionaries, I'm not really aware of any but perhaps someone else might be able to recommend one. In general the Symbian third-party software market seems to be a lot smaller than the Palm / Pocket PC one, so there may not be a lot of options out there.
venture160
秀才
Damn, and that e61 looks so nice, nice screen, easy to use, and nice email functions.
I am basicly looking for a device that besides running Pleco, can surf the internet with a really nice browser ( I hear the e61 browser is fantastic) and I can seamlessly use my gmail account.
I am thinking a PPC would be easier to use for this over a Treo, or am I wrong? I was thinking along the lines of a Qtek S200 or 9100.
I am basicly looking for a device that besides running Pleco, can surf the internet with a really nice browser ( I hear the e61 browser is fantastic) and I can seamlessly use my gmail account.
I am thinking a PPC would be easier to use for this over a Treo, or am I wrong? I was thinking along the lines of a Qtek S200 or 9100.
Web browsing on Pocket PC is a bit better (particularly now, with the release of a native version of Opera), but the Blazer browser on newer Palms is pretty good too, and the Java version of Opera seems to work quite well. On the e-mail front I'd actually give the nod to Palm since SnapperMail is Palm-only and is easily my favorite portable e-mail client; assuming your GMail account allows POP access (I believe most accounts do now) that would probably be the ideal solution for GMail.
In general I find the Pocket PC user experience considerably more aggravating (particularly so if you're coming over from Mac), but certainly for power-user features like video and multitasking the Pocket PC does have the edge. The two models you mention are both quite popular among our users, and I'd take either of them over a Windows Mobile Treo, since the Pocket PC interface really isn't designed to work well with square screens. (but I'd take a Palm OS Treo over any Pocket PC smartphone)
In general I find the Pocket PC user experience considerably more aggravating (particularly so if you're coming over from Mac), but certainly for power-user features like video and multitasking the Pocket PC does have the edge. The two models you mention are both quite popular among our users, and I'd take either of them over a Windows Mobile Treo, since the Pocket PC interface really isn't designed to work well with square screens. (but I'd take a Palm OS Treo over any Pocket PC smartphone)
david.dencker@gmail.com
Member
Symbian OS 9.1
Dear Mike
I think you are underestimating the interest for a Symbian based version of Plecodict. I have been studying Chinese in Beijing for nearly a year and many of my friends have purchased PDAs for the sole reason of using Plecodict on it, but they have all shown interest in cell phones being able to run Plecodict. Until now QTEK (running windows mobile 5.0) has been the best option and a couple of friends have purchased that.
However I think that Nokia, Motorola, Samsung, Sony Ericsson and BenQ (of whom several recently emphasized their continued commitment to Symbian OS) in the future will launch many models with touch screen and Symbian OS such as the new Sony Ericsson W950.
You should not only see this as a service to those of us who would prefer to have a single multi-usage device but also a huge new market to tap into. Many students/tourists who would never consider buying a PDA don’t hesitate when it comes to buying the new trendy walkman phone. The cell phone market dwarfs the PDA market and making a Symbian version of Plecodict available to millions of smartphone users might be the smartest thing you could do right now… Especially since several analysts suggest that PDAs are in danger of becoming extinct as the smart phones enter the market.
Best,
David
Dear Mike
I think you are underestimating the interest for a Symbian based version of Plecodict. I have been studying Chinese in Beijing for nearly a year and many of my friends have purchased PDAs for the sole reason of using Plecodict on it, but they have all shown interest in cell phones being able to run Plecodict. Until now QTEK (running windows mobile 5.0) has been the best option and a couple of friends have purchased that.
However I think that Nokia, Motorola, Samsung, Sony Ericsson and BenQ (of whom several recently emphasized their continued commitment to Symbian OS) in the future will launch many models with touch screen and Symbian OS such as the new Sony Ericsson W950.
You should not only see this as a service to those of us who would prefer to have a single multi-usage device but also a huge new market to tap into. Many students/tourists who would never consider buying a PDA don’t hesitate when it comes to buying the new trendy walkman phone. The cell phone market dwarfs the PDA market and making a Symbian version of Plecodict available to millions of smartphone users might be the smartest thing you could do right now… Especially since several analysts suggest that PDAs are in danger of becoming extinct as the smart phones enter the market.
Best,
David
I just don't see a lot of indications that these companies are planning to launch UIQ (touchscreen) phones. Series 60 (non-touchscreen) is certainly popular, and given the general suckiness of Microsoft's non-touchscreen smartphone OS I imagine it'll continue to do well, but it still seems like Sony Ericsson is about the only company with any serious interest in producing UIQ devices.
I might be more favorably inclined to doing a Symbian version if the Pocket PC version had been more successful. There were similar arguments raised in favor of a Pocket PC port, people saying that Palm OS was dying and that Pocket PC had better hardware and so forth, but we're still selling more than 2x as many copies of our software on Palm as on Pocket PC, and in fact we still have yet to break even on the Pocket PC version (though we're finally getting close). A Symbian port would cost more, we'd have to rewrite the software almost completely from scratch, we'd have to shell out another hefty sum of money to license a Symbian-compatible handwriting recognizer, and at the moment I'm not at all confident that we would ever break even.
Now there has been some consideration given to the idea of a "lite" version of PlecoDict that wouldn't require a touchscreen; there'd be no handwriting recognizer (replaced by an improved radical input system), fewer features and a simpler interface in general, and consequently it would be a lot less work to program, but it would give people most of the Pleco experience, and if we wrote it for Java it would support more than enough phones (with a little modification) to justify the porting costs.
Another glimmer of hope is that StyleTap have stated that they plan to develop a Symbian version of their Palm OS emulator; our software seems to work pretty well on the Pocket PC version of StyleTap and would presumably work on a Symbian version as well.
I might be more favorably inclined to doing a Symbian version if the Pocket PC version had been more successful. There were similar arguments raised in favor of a Pocket PC port, people saying that Palm OS was dying and that Pocket PC had better hardware and so forth, but we're still selling more than 2x as many copies of our software on Palm as on Pocket PC, and in fact we still have yet to break even on the Pocket PC version (though we're finally getting close). A Symbian port would cost more, we'd have to rewrite the software almost completely from scratch, we'd have to shell out another hefty sum of money to license a Symbian-compatible handwriting recognizer, and at the moment I'm not at all confident that we would ever break even.
Now there has been some consideration given to the idea of a "lite" version of PlecoDict that wouldn't require a touchscreen; there'd be no handwriting recognizer (replaced by an improved radical input system), fewer features and a simpler interface in general, and consequently it would be a lot less work to program, but it would give people most of the Pleco experience, and if we wrote it for Java it would support more than enough phones (with a little modification) to justify the porting costs.
Another glimmer of hope is that StyleTap have stated that they plan to develop a Symbian version of their Palm OS emulator; our software seems to work pretty well on the Pocket PC version of StyleTap and would presumably work on a Symbian version as well.
theshusher
Member
Hi. I'd buy a Symbian version as well - even lite. At least Sony Ericsson seems to be busting at the seams now with UIQ devices. I'd so like to get rid of my Palm.
Please! I beg of you!
Please! I beg of you!
theshusher
Member
Seems like if there's a "vast array" of platforms you could support with a lite version it might be worth it. I'd definitely use it. The handwriting recognition is definitely great - especially for beginning students - but as we develop, we want to get rid of the clunky palm and just use the dictionary on our phone when we have to.
We've gotten the same impression from a few people by e-mail recently, actually - we're probably going to do a customer survey about this at some point in the next few months, but if there's a critical mass of people who'd buy our software without a handwriting recognizer then that's certainly a strong argument for developing a touchscreen-less version of PlecoDict for BlackBerry / S60 (both of which could run essentially the same Java code) and the no-touchscreen version of Windows Mobile. Seems like a safer bet than a UIQ version, anyway, Sony Ericsson makes some nice devices but between BlackBerry and Nokia there are a TON of phones out there that would run a no-touchscreen version.
theshusher
Member
Actually, I'll probably now insist on handwriting recognition. I haven't personally checked them out yet, but I've noticed Motorola has come out with a line of phones with handwriting recognition that include Chinese-English dictionaries (in China) including the ROKR. The ultimate device for Chinese learners in China would be a phone with a Chinese-English dictionary, and an mp3 player so we could listen to our ChinesePod.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Well it's certainly possible, Hanwang makes a recognizer for Symbian and even if they didn't we have another way we could probably get one on there. But people who want UIQ-style devices have two other platforms on which they can get our software (however much they may prefer UIQ for interface/stability reasons), while people who want smaller, Motorola Q / BlackBerry-style devices have none, so it seems like we'd be expanding our market a lot more by supporting that group than we would be by supporting yet another slightly-too-big-to-fit-in-your-pocket touchscreen-equipped PDA-style platform.
theshusher
Member
I just bought a new ROKR E6 today. It's not at all too big to fit in your pocket. I messed around with the Chinese-English dictionary at Best Buy a while before I bought it - it's no PlecoDict - but it's good enough to now chunk my awful Palm.
You are the company so you have to figure out what's marketable. I'm just a wee customer telling you what I'd like. These days, if I wanted something slightly-too-big-to-fit-in-your-pocket, there are a number of devices I could chose from that have WindowsMobile, but these typically don't make great phones or mp3 players (and they're slightly-too-big-to-fit-in-your-pocket). But finally there are some good phones these days that also make good mp3 players, and a few of them have touch screens. Sony has a couple of nice options as well, but so far, I haven't found any with Chinese-English dictionaries included.
You are the company so you have to figure out what's marketable. I'm just a wee customer telling you what I'd like. These days, if I wanted something slightly-too-big-to-fit-in-your-pocket, there are a number of devices I could chose from that have WindowsMobile, but these typically don't make great phones or mp3 players (and they're slightly-too-big-to-fit-in-your-pocket). But finally there are some good phones these days that also make good mp3 players, and a few of them have touch screens. Sony has a couple of nice options as well, but so far, I haven't found any with Chinese-English dictionaries included.
The ROKR's not a bad system, but for our purposes it would be very tough to justify supporting a device without an established "platform," so it's not much of an option for us. Unfortunately, there don't seem to be any Palm, Pocket PC or UIQ Symbian smartphones with that small a form factor yet, which leaves us with either WM Smartphone or BlackBerry as our best bets for the users who want something with phone capabilities but don't want something as big as a Treo.
I would totally go for a Java version. I'm looking at Blackberries and the Nokia E90 and it would seem to be a welcome change of pace from the instability of Palm and WM.
Also lots of businesspeople need to use more corporate style devices (i.e. Blackberries), and I'm seeing plenty of foreign businesspeople walking around in Beijing who could really use a good dictionary!
So in summary, if you had a Symbian or Java version, I'd totally buy it.
Also lots of businesspeople need to use more corporate style devices (i.e. Blackberries), and I'm seeing plenty of foreign businesspeople walking around in Beijing who could really use a good dictionary!
So in summary, if you had a Symbian or Java version, I'd totally buy it.