Switching Back and Forth Between Windows Mobile and Palm OS

I have the complete Palm OS Plecodict running on my Treo 680 but I just got myself an HTC Touch. I'm on the fence about keeping it though. I know I can buy the converting license thing for $70 bucks but what happens if I want to switch back to Palm OS? Do I have to pay $70 again? $200 again? I need to have the complete version for work :| I don't intend to run the two versions concurrently, but I need to test the WM version properly and the trial version limitations are a bit annoying. Anyone else encounter this situation?
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
We've only had one or two people ask us about this, actually, but what we've done so far in those cases is let them switch back from the second platform to the first platform for free if they decide they're unhappy with the second one, but not let them keep going back and forth after that.

If you switched to Pocket PC and decided you did want to have the software on both platforms, though, you could pay the difference ($48 in the case of the Complete version) between the Pocket PC switcher price and the new purchase price and end up with a full license on each.

I agree with you about the trial version limitations, they're annoying for us too but unfortunately they're not really something we have much control over. We are considering loosening up the restriction that you can't use the demo version with free dictionaries, though (one of the few demo limitations that was our idea and not someone else's), which might let you get a little more of a sense for how searches work at least.
 
Thanks for the quick response Mike. I'm going to buy a switching license right now! I've been using Plecodict for the last six years (from college up to working in China) and I simply can't live without it. Great job and best of luck with ver 2.0. I'm dying to try the new version.
 

daniu

榜眼
Hi!

I would really be carefull with this. Don't want to be mean ... but even though I got almost the full version now I might not have bought anything at all if I could have used it without restrictions with free dictionaries (CEDict is not that bad).
If you do so then I think there should be at least a time limit to use the demo.

regards
Daniel
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Good point, but given that we sell far more copies of the Complete version than the Basic, I'm not too worried about this. Certainly some sort of time limit or other restriction would be needed, though - at the very least we'd probably want to do something to limit the flashcard system, since otherwise you'd essentially be getting a fully-functional Chinese flashcard program for free.

An alternative to adding free dictionaries would be to change the demo dictionaries a bit, let you see all of the headwords for example but only give you a few of the definitions; that way people could get a better sense of the scope of the dictionaries (and of how exactly search results worked) without actually getting any useful information out of them. And since the handwriting recognizer can't be used to enter characters in the demo, we wouldn't have to worry about people using the demo to look up the pronunciation for characters which they could then quickly look up in a paper dictionary.
 

Aunty

举人
I found that as a beginner with only ten words, having all of the "a" entries didn't let me see how I could use it very well, because I was dealing with an unfamiliar program and an inpenetrable language at the same time. I needed to see wo, ni, hao, shi, before I could relate to it. Now a year later, I could do a lot more with the demo, but of course I've already bought it ;-)

So if you're revamping the trial, maybe you can find something that a total beginner can use and grow out of quicky, like a flashcard list of the 30 most common beginner words, which a beginner might work in runs of 5 or 10 to see how they all get covered over time. Advanced users could still pretend to get some wrong, to see how it works.

Maybe you could scribble out a simple beginners dictionary of say 50 or 100 common study words, to allow adding flashcards from that list to get the full experience, while still limiting the good dictionaries to their "a" words so that people can appreciate what their definitions have to offer. When I started, I couldn't fathom those dictionary entries at all, much less use them, but I could see they had substance that I would grow to benefit from greatly.

That's just an idea to illustrate the need during naive evaluation, so you might have better ideas, Mike.
 

ipsi

状元
I think that's a bit of a problem with the demo: You need to have something that can show beginners exactly how well it can work, but also have something that will show advanced students the power Pleco possesses. While they're not mutually exclusive, I reckon it'd be hard to get right.

Another thought while I'm here Mike: I know Pleco is aimed at English Speakers, but wouldn't it make sense to expand it to Chinese Speakers studying English?

Or even just as a basic dictionary that they could carry around in their pocket? For this, you'd obviously need to translate the interface, and I don't know if it would be worth it, but I personally think it would be a good move (if not necessarily financially viable).
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Aunty - good point about the 'a' entries. Actually only one of our licenses specifically requires that we use the 'a' and 'b' ones (and even that publisher would likely agree to change that requirement if we asked), the rest all just specify percentages of the total entries that could be available in the demo, so it's certainly feasible to switch to some more common words.

ipsi - including headwords for all entries would probably help a lot with this, especially if we did it with the ABC; you wouldn't get to read the definitions for the obscure words, but you'd get a good sense for the dictionary's vast vocabulary coverage at least.

On the Chinese-speakers-studying-English front, we decided long ago not to pursue that market and I see no reason to change that policy now; the profit margins are tiny on legitimate sales and piracy is rampant, and ultimately I think our narrow focus on people learning Chinese makes our software a lot better. Many of PlecoDict's most popular features, like super-flexible Pinyin input, timer-free handwriting recognition, and character magnification would hold little or no interest for a Chinese speaker learning English, and even in our choice of dictionaries the titles we've chosen all tend to be better for English speakers.

To create a product that would interest the Chinese-speaker-learning-English market we'd need a really good learner's E-C (like the Oxford Advanced), English-language audio samples and dozens if not hundreds of changes to the user interface to make it more Chinese-speaker-friendly, and even then we'd still be lagging behind Kingsoft, Besta et al in a lot of areas. So it just doesn't seem like a good use of our resources when there's so much growth potential among people learning Chinese.
 

ipsi

状元
Fair enough. I'm personally glad that you've focused so heavily on the Chinese stuff - there's a lot of features there, and they're all basically useful to me. :)

I'm also vaguely interested in studying Japanese, but not for any real reason. Mostly "Cos I can!" :) I know you've said that you've no current plans for such a thing (or even a non-(C-E) version), but I'd personally love it if I could at least keep stuff like that on one device, and Pleco already has many, many features that would be useful in studying Japanese. :)

All I really need now is for Pleco to include a textbook and replace CJKOS :)
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Well thanks to the hard-working folks at the HanDeDict project there probably will be a semi-official C-G module for 2.0, but yes, in general we're trying to keep our focus on Chinese. Japanese support would involve licensing a Kanji-friendly handwriting recognizer (there are a few hundred common Japanese-only characters that our current system doesn't support, unfortunately) and at least one good E-J and J-E dictionary, so even if the development work involved would be fairly modest we'd have to put down a lot of money to get the necessary licenses lined up.
 

sfrrr

状元
Why do students of Japanese need PD? When I first started looking for Chinese learning, dictionary and grammar books, there were hundreds of Japanese apps for every one Chinese app. For a while, in act, I tried to adapt some of the Japanese sources to my Chinese studies, but that wasn't an efficient use of my time anfd money.

I prefer products that come from people with a single focus. Examples of these products are: PD, Agenda Fusion, PocketInformant, Datebk for the Palm, WeatherPanel (when Martian was still working on it).

As a student of Chinese, I don't want anything to blur Mike's focus. I'm not sure I've ever used any other app as often as I use PD.

Sandra
 

daniu

榜眼
Hi!

As for Japanese I fully agree - that is a different approach.

But focusing German/Chinese would be nice. Should also not be too difficult since we almost use the same character set as english. Maybe even a commercial dictionary would be cool. As I am German I know quite some chinese people over here who would appreciate a German dictionary - even many of them are students and would not be willing to buy Plecodict since they do not even own a PDA. But it would definitely be a point in my argumentation for Plecodict. And many of them own a Chinese-German electronic dictionary.

Even for me it would be much more convenient since like that I always need to translate words to english first ... which is usually not a problem since my english is still far better than my chinese but when I talk to Chinese people I would like to be able to make them understand even the most rare german word (or understand the most rare chinese word) which I (or they) might not even know in english. Quite some chinese people over here know more German than English.

In this respect more topic specific dictionaries would be cool like technical, business or medical dictionaries. And of course also in German :)

regards
Daniel
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Yeah, I'm not a big fan of blurring Pleco's focus either, particularly not after the Berlitz fiasco. And yes, there are a lot of other products out there for Japanese already, particularly the dedicated electronic dictionaries which are worlds beyond their Chinese counterparts.

German/Chinese really isn't going to involve any extra work on our part, all we have to do is drop HanDeDict into our dictionary converter program and post it on our website - an enterprising Pleco customer has already done this (see http://www.plecoforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=783) so all that's missing is a version from us with a non-? dictionary icon.
 

daniu

榜眼
Hi!

Sure ... of course I got the "?" handedict version but ... is there a chance for a commercial dictionary?

regards
Daniel
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Possibly at some point, but we're already rolling out two (or possibly as many as four, we've got two other deals in the works) new dictionaries in the near future and we'd kind of like to start drawing down those royalty advances before we go out and license any more. We'd also like to see what the download numbers for the semi-official version of HanDeDict look like. And of course there's the issue of interface localization, which would require us to hire a translator and make a number of changes to the internal design of PlecoDict in order to make it fully localization-friendly.
 

daniu

榜眼
Hi!

hmmm ... I like to hear that you are thinking about more dictionaries.

As for the user interface: I do not believe that anybody in Germany who learns Chinese or anybody in China (even less in Taiwan) will not know enough english to use the dictionary.
The chinese in the program is actually more an obstacle but since people usually want to learn chinese (or know already) when they use Pleco that is better than having to learn some symbols that do not have a meaning outside pleco. My personal opinion is that there is no need to translate the user interface at all.
I think in Germany nobody will start studying Chinese before his english is quite good already.

regards
Daniel

PS: I do not really know about China but in Taiwan students of all languages do have to study English forst for some time.
 

gato

状元
Yeah, I'm not a big fan of blurring Pleco's focus either, particularly not after the Berlitz fiasco. And yes, there are a lot of other products out there for Japanese already, particularly the dedicated electronic dictionaries which are worlds beyond their Chinese counterparts.
The Dopod (aka HTC) Windows Mobile-based cell phone are doing very well in China. I bet there would be a market for Pleco to be used as English-to-Chinese dictionary among Chinese Dopod users if you just simplified GUI a bit (it can remain in English) and had a product info web page in Chinese on the website. The target market could be mid-level to advanced Chinese learners of English who would know enough English to navigate the system with a little bit of practice.
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
daniu - well we could certainly think about it at least, we'll see what the download numbers for the new HanDeDict conversion are like and go from there. The fact that we could keep the UI in English initially is a definite plus.

gato - I just don't think they'd be willing to pay our prices for a product which really wouldn't fit their needs any better than a much cheaper Chinese-made one; Pleco may be a higher quality product in a lot of respects, but the lack of English audio or grammar tools would pretty much be a dealbreaker for most of them.
 

ouonomos

Member
Re: are the hsk flashcards free?

Hello;

I recently reinstalled my Pleco software on an htc 8525--I'd done something to mess it up on the same phone previously. Anyway, I reloaded the hsk flashcard deck, and now it only lets me do flashcards up to like "B" in the first deck. Am I doing something wrong, or did I just misunderstand the licensing?

I'm referring to the product "HSK - vocabulary lists for all 4 levels of the Hanyu Shuiping Kaoshi, the standard test of Chinese proficiency in mainland China. "

Thank you for your help,

Mark


mikelove said:
Aunty - good point about the 'a' entries. Actually only one of our licenses specifically requires that we use the 'a' and 'b' ones (and even that publisher would likely agree to change that requirement if we asked), the rest all just specify percentages of the total entries that could be available in the demo, so it's certainly feasible to switch to some more common words.

ipsi - including headwords for all entries would probably help a lot with this, especially if we did it with the ABC; you wouldn't get to read the definitions for the obscure words, but you'd get a good sense for the dictionary's vast vocabulary coverage at least.

On the Chinese-speakers-studying-English front, we decided long ago not to pursue that market and I see no reason to change that policy now; the profit margins are tiny on legitimate sales and piracy is rampant, and ultimately I think our narrow focus on people learning Chinese makes our software a lot better. Many of PlecoDict's most popular features, like super-flexible Pinyin input, timer-free handwriting recognition, and character magnification would hold little or no interest for a Chinese speaker learning English, and even in our choice of dictionaries the titles we've chosen all tend to be better for English speakers.

To create a product that would interest the Chinese-speaker-learning-English market we'd need a really good learner's E-C (like the Oxford Advanced), English-language audio samples and dozens if not hundreds of changes to the user interface to make it more Chinese-speaker-friendly, and even then we'd still be lagging behind Kingsoft, Besta et al in a lot of areas. So it just doesn't seem like a good use of our resources when there's so much growth potential among people learning Chinese.
 
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