New Dictionary License + Updated 2.0 Info

[mikelove]

A desktop version is definitely still in the works, we've actually spent quite a bit of money obtaining the necessary licenses to develop one; it'll likely be out a few months after the rest of 2.0 (probably along with 2.1 releases of the Palm/PPC versions that enable sync support). The delay is partly because of the fact that everything else in 2.0 is running behind, but mostly because we want to have the PPC version nearly finished first since the desktop version will be very closely based on it.

Regarding PenPower, I'm afraid that's really not something we can do a lot to fix - they patch the system at a lower level than our software operates, so we can't really do anything to keep them from grabbing stylus input. And they don't provide an interface (or at least don't provide one we're aware of) for other programs to disable/enable their software. So about all I can suggest on that front is that you enable Input Field Compability mode and use PenPower for handwriting input in PlecoDict along with using it elsewhere on your Palm.

 

[sfrrr]

We're considering a number of options in that area, actually - it'll help matters considerably if we can get our built-in Ogg Vorbis decoder working on Palm (hoping to use that as the audio format for Pleco 2.0), since then it would theoretically be possible to package up an entire ChinesePod-style lesson (vocab + transcripts + audio) and access it within PlecoDict.

Mike--that's a brilliant idea. It's one of those ideas that's so obvious, no one thought of it until now. Sort of like when faucet manufacturer Chicago reduced the number of repairs on a faucet to almost nothing and made all washers the same size. How, by making the stems square instead of round. It is close to impossible to strip a square stem. (Fact of the day.)

 

[joe_dude]

Measure words?

Mike, I dunno if this has been asked before (I did a quick search and didn't find any mention), but will v2.0 include measure words for nouns?

It's one of those constant aggravations when trying to construct Chinese sentences. One pair of? One set of? One bowl of? Argh!!!

I hope I make sense.... :roll:

 

[mikelove]

sfrrr - thanks! Ironically, given the low standards of the USPTO these days even something this obvious could probably be patented, though as I personally find the very idea of software patents abhorrent there's no way I'd actually try.

joe_dude - the ABC dictionary already includes these for a lot of nouns, actually; not all of them, but the simple / basic ones will generally have an "MW" listed in the entry. We tried to license another dictionary which has among other things a very nice measure word glossary, but they weren't interested in working with us, so I'm afraid there's not much we can do to improve on this particular front unless some other measure word reference presents itself.

 

[sfrrr]

joe_dude - the ABC dictionary already includes these for a lot of nouns, actually; not all of them, but the simple / basic ones will generally have an "MW" listed in the entry. We tried to license another dictionary which has among other things a very nice measure word glossary, but they weren't interested in working with us, so I'm afraid there's not much we can do to improve on this particular front unless some other measure word reference presents itself.

Also, if I remember correctly, the ABC also uses M. Just M. And oftentimes the MW indicator is buried in the middle of a bunch of definitions for that word. Not clear, but I'm glad it's available.

Sandra

 

[hairyleprechaun]

Hello Mike,

I agree. Though the ABC dictionary includes measure words for some nouns, it does not list all of them, and sometimes even when the measure word is listed it is quite hard to find it in the definition. Given the importance of measure words in Chinese, I often find myself scanning the dictionaries in PlecoDict looking for a proper measure word for a noun.

If you cannot seem to liscense a list of Chinese measure words, would it not be possible for you to make your own list and then integrate it into PlecoDict?

 

[mikelove]

Right, sorry, it's just an M. If it's in the middle of a definition, that's generally because the word can be both a noun and a verb (or an adjective) and the M is being inserted at the end of the noun part.

And I suppose we could theoretically come up with our own list, but the ABC dictionary includes measure words for over 27,000 entries, so it would be tough for us to produce something bigger than that. And for the words that don't have specific M: listings, the ABC introduction says:

Any n. without indication of a measure word either does not ordinarily have one, or can take the general measure word ge or a collective measure word such as zhǒng "sort; kind" and duī "pile". It should be noted that there is a considerable amount of regional variation in the use of measure words and that the use of specialized ones is giving way among some speakers either to ge or to none at all.

But we'll certainly try to get the measure word appendix from the ABC into 2.0 at least; it doesn't link words to measure words, but it gives you a long list of measure words and what sorts of objects they go with which one could turn into flashcards and study.

 

[joe_dude]

Ah, I see 'em now. Thanks! I guess I was expecting the measure words to be in Chinese, so I never paid any attention to the pinyin.

Guess what I want now is measure words in Chinese... LOL!

 

[mikelove]

That we could probably do, actually. Or at the very least we could hyperlink them to the entries for those measure words.

 

[hairyleprechaun]

Thanks for the information Mike.

Yeah, it sure would be nice to have a consolidated list of measure words and their uses, such as the measure words appendix in the ABC dictionary, accessible in PlecoDict.

 

[vrixon]

Hyperlinks to measure words ... what a great idea

If we get to vote ... I vote for the hyperlink from the current M entry to the actual character of the measure word in the dictionary.

 

[mikelove]

Yeah, that seems like the most sensible way to do it, particularly if we're including that separate measure word appendix.

 

[sfrrr]

Measure word appendix--how appealing. But, no, we have to wait for it. Sigh and whine.

I've never understood why patience is a virtue.

Sandra

 

[hairyleprechaun]

Hey Mike,

As if you’re not busy enough, I am wondering if you have made any progress on either licensing a measure word dictionary, or including the measure word section of the appendices from the ABC?

Darrol

 

[mikelove]

No progress on a measure word dictionary, honestly we've got other licenses that are higher priorities at the moment, but thanks for the reminder about the ABC measure word appendix - this should indeed be included, the new database file format in 2.0 makes it considerably easier for us to embed stuff like this into dictionary data files.

 

[hairyleprechaun]

Hello Mike,

I imagine you must be quite busy with ironing out the bugs and finishing the feature set for Pleco 2.0.

I just want to remind you that I for one am still highly interested in a measure word dictionary. And, I imagine a lot of the beginner learners of Chinese would appreciate one as well.

Too bad the ABC only includes the pinyin version of the measure words in the definitions. Often when I go to look them up I have to spend quite a bit of time going through the plethora of characters, and their definitions, that have the same pinyin before I finally find the proper measure word.

While I am wishing, is there any potential for an in-depth radical dictionary?

Thanks!

Darrol

 

[sfrrr]

Are you aware that the ABC dictionary usually lists the measure word for a given noun? It's true you can't look up "things with handles" to find what that measure word is, but I find the ABC works that way too--look up yizi or beizi and it will likely list the measure word (liangci) from which you can deduce the category. Also, if you know the measure word, the ABC will tell you the category of things it covers.

Sandra

 

[hairyleprechaun]

Hello Sandra,

Thanks for your reply.

I am aware of ABC including measure words for nouns. That is why I said:

Too bad the ABC only includes the pinyin version of the measure words in the definitions. Often when I go to look them up I have to spend quite a bit of time going through the plethora of characters, and their definitions, that have the same pinyin before I finally find the proper measure word.

EDIT: If I am correct, I just found out that the superscript number preceding the measure words in the ABC dictionary refer to the numerical order of the character for the measure word if a person types in (or copies to input field) the pinyin for the measure word with the tone number after it.

So, if a person wants to find the measure word for oil painting you2hua4 油画， the ABC dictionary lists the measure word as 10[superscript]fu2. Simply copy fu2 to the imput field and then scroll down to the 10th character in the list in the ABC dictionary to come up with 幅 the measure word for cloth and paintings.

 

[goulniky]

Having the measure word displayed as character would be better, same for examples actually. This still works in general, although it's not full proof, there are a number of errors, at least in the Wenlin version where the superscript is sometimes missing, or wrong (e.g. jiàn, should be 件² and not 见¹)

 

[hairyleprechaun]

I agree. I would prefer to see the measure word as a character followed by its pinyin.

That said, I still would like to have a measure word dictionary to scroll through.