Best Dictionaries for intermediate learners?

[jmido8]

Hi! I just started my 3rd year of college Chinese and i'm trying to decide on one of the paid dictionaries to buy. I'm studying abroad this year in China but my Chinese still isn't great. I need a dictionary with pinyin and English otherwise I won't be able to understand it. Does anyone have any recommendations?

Thanks!

 

[mikelove]

Hi! I just started my 3rd year of college Chinese and i'm trying to decide on one of the paid dictionaries to buy. I'm studying abroad this year in China but my Chinese still isn't great. I need a dictionary with pinyin and English otherwise I won't be able to understand it. Does anyone have any recommendations?

Since nobody else has chimed in: the ABC is usually our recommendation in these cases, it covers a lot more words than the built-in one but still includes copious Pinyin / English.

 

[scykei]

Haha. But I'd probably wait for the big update since it's so close now, hopefully. The English-Chinese is okay, but the Chinese-English is basically Pleco's built-in one stripped out of its example sentences. :\

 

[mikelove]

Haha. But I'd probably wait for the big update since it's so close now, hopefully.

It is, but it's probably not going to shake up the general-purpose dictionary situation in too major a way.

The English-Chinese is okay, but the Chinese-English is basically Pleco's built-in one stripped out of its example sentences. :\

Interesting response... how would you compare the ABC E-C to the NWP one (if you have both)?

 

[scykei]

I never gave it any thought since switching between them is so easy to do. I rarely even notice which dictionary I'm using.

I did a quick search for random adjectives, nouns and verbs that pop into my mind. I'll comment on which I feel is better (of course, it is only my personal opinion).

• peaceful - no entry for ABC
• delicious - NWP better
• helpful - no entry for ABC
• keyboard - no entry for ABC
• vegetable - same
• dog - NWP better (lists both 犬 and 狗 for the animal entry)
• oxygen - same
• feel - same
• eat - NWP better
• bully - ABC better

NWP appears to have more relevant entries than ABC and the definition is more detailed. It might just so happen that these few words are better defined for NWP but it certainly feels that way.

 

[mikelove]

NWP appears to have more relevant entries than ABC and the definition is more detailed. It might just so happen that these few words are better defined for NWP but it certainly feels that way.

Several of those are actually included in ABC E-C entries as compounds, which will be separately searchable in the next update, but interesting that you like the NWP ones better when you compare definitions head-to-head... we actually hold rights to modify the NWP that are about as expansive as those we have for PLC, so this lends support to my recent feeling that we ought to be doing more with them.

 

[scykei]

Oh, I never noticed they were listed in the compounds. But even when they are listed, it doesn't actually show anything in ABC so I guess they expect us to just adjectify words ourself by adding ~的 behind the word. There are a lot of definitions in ABC that only list down one single translation. I thought that the word delicious was better in NWP because it had 美味的 (which is what first came to my mind) and other definitions as well. ABC only listed 好吃的 and that's about it.

Of course, I never said that ABC was bad. If I were learning English, knowing only Chinese, having one definition to it would suffice, but I think it's quite easy to see how NWP performs better. I wonder if anyone else share the same opinion as me. I don't know what new dictionaries you're introducing in the big update but perhaps you should reconsider what to include into the new Professional bundle.

I really don't want to sound like I'm complaining but I never actually used ABC as much as I thought I would. If I wanted word coverage may as well just get the free Astro dictionary or CC-dictionary. It's not to say I'm unsatisfied with the product right now. I got the Complete Bundle but I don't usually bother to use everything it came with. So after using it for almost a year I feel that the perfect combo for what we currently have on sale is Basic Bundle + 21st Century + Guifan. I'm actually also looking forward to Tuttle's expansion but I really don't know what to expect.

 

[mikelove]

Oh, I never noticed they were listed in the compounds. But even when they are listed, it doesn't actually show anything in ABC so I guess they expect us to just adjectify words ourself by adding ~的 behind the word. There are a lot of definitions in ABC that only list down one single translation. I thought that the word delicious was better in NWP because it had 美味的 (which is what first came to my mind) and other definitions as well. ABC only listed 好吃的 and that's about it.

Hmm... well I'm not sure what they're going for there, I do think they were targeting the Chinese market too but there may also have been a "tragedy of choice" consideration - show someone a bunch of words without explaining in detail what each one connotes and they might pick the wrong one, give them just one "safe" translation like 好吃的 and they have less to worry about.

Of course, I never said that ABC was bad. If I were learning English, knowing only Chinese, having one definition to it would suffice, but I think it's quite easy to see how NWP performs better. I wonder if anyone else share the same opinion as me. I don't know what new dictionaries you're introducing in the big update but perhaps you should reconsider what to include into the new Professional bundle.

Certainly some users do, and while ABC has been lovely for Pleco over the years I wouldn't necessarily say we're committed to making it quite such a central part of our app forever, particularly since they seem to be licensing it to so many of our competitors.

The future contents of the Professional bundle are definitely under consideration, as is the idea of maybe getting rid of it altogether and just having a single bundle containing all of our non-dictionary add-ons plus various "dictionary packs. In fact we're looking at possibly splitting dictionaries and other add-ons into two different "classes" of add-on altogether, in large part because Apple seems to be OK with our selling the former outside of the App Store too and it would be great to deliver them through a more streamlined system (a la Kindle) - your purchased dictionaries (regardless of where you purchased them) would be part of your "Pleco account" and usable on any device that links to it, while your non-dictionary add-ons would continue to be governed by Apple's "no purchase mechanisms other than the App Store" rule and would require the current slightly-more-involved process to move between platforms.

I really don't want to sound like I'm complaining but I never actually used ABC as much as I thought I would. If I wanted word coverage may as well just get the free Astro dictionary or CC-dictionary. It's not to say I'm unsatisfied with the product right now. I got the Complete Bundle but I don't usually bother to use everything it came with. So after using it for almost a year I feel that the perfect combo for what we currently have on sale is Basic Bundle + 21st Century + Guifan. I'm actually also looking forward to Tuttle's expansion but I really don't know what to expect.

Perfectly reasonable, and indeed most of our dictionary licenses lately have focused on depth or specialization rather than simply defining a lot of words.

 

[jmido8]

Hi, I still haven't bought a dictionary but I'm planning to buy one later today unless the bundle is coming out within a couple weeks. I'd love to wait for it but I practically live on Pleco here in China and I really need a larger and better dictionary.


Also, a little off topic from my original post but is there a way I can sync my android flashcards with my ipod ones and vise-versa?

 

[mikelove]

Hi, I still haven't bought a dictionary but I'm planning to buy one later today unless the bundle is coming out within a couple weeks. I'd love to wait for it but I practically live on Pleco here in China and I really need a larger and better dictionary.

There'll be a big software update by then but not any major new bundles, we're still working on a few of the relevant dictionaries.

Also, a little off topic from my original post but is there a way I can sync my android flashcards with my ipod ones and vise-versa?

Not automatically, but the database formats are compatible so you can Backup Database your flashcards on one and Restore Database your flashcards on the other.

 

[jmido8]

Thanks!

What's the difference between a chinese-english dictionary and english-chinese dictionary? The ABC Chinese-English one sounds really good because of how many entries it has but does Chinese-English mean it can only look up words if you enter them in chinese?

Also, if I get the 21st century dict, can the document reader lookup the words in the 21st cent dict since it doesn't have pinyin?

 

[scykei]

What's the difference between a chinese-english dictionary and english-chinese dictionary? The ABC Chinese-English one sounds really good because of how many entries it has but does Chinese-English mean it can only look up words if you enter them in chinese?

Basically, for the Chinese-English dictionaries, the head word will be in Chinese and for English-Chinese dictionaries, the headword will be in English. But if you really want to look up words inside of the entries, you can still do it by using the fulltext search button, or by placing a # symbol before your entry. It requires at least two characters to work though. With this, you can cross search an English word even in Chinese-English dictionaries in the entry definitions and example sentences for your search term. But going through a proper English-Chinese dictionary is recommended as it would be much more reliable.

Also, if I get the 21st century dict, can the document reader lookup the words in the 21st cent dict since it doesn't have pinyin?

If you mean tapping on characters to reveal the pronunciation or jumping into other entries then yes. Only rarely would you encounter a situation where the pronunciation is ambigious, so you don't really have to worry about not being able to recognise any words. You can trust me that the 21st Century dictionary is going to be amazingly comprehensive, despite the terrible formating issues with the lack of newlines within entries. However, this problem would be fixed in the big update!

 

[mikelove]

You can trust me that the 21st Century dictionary is going to be amazingly comprehensive, despite the terrible formating issues with the lack of newlines within entries. However, this problem would be fixed in the big update!

Yes, 21C formatting is a long-running bugaboo which we're definitely addressing - here's an idea of what it's going to look like with our new type design, though we should have an at least reasonably clean version ready quite soon.

 

[scykei]

Mike, you've gotta' stop teasing me like that. You're getting me extremely excted!

 

[mikelove]

Mike, you've gotta' stop teasing me like that. You're getting me extremely excted!

Well the nice thing about type redesigns is that once you've got the fonts in hand (still waiting on one, though in fairness it's a font with something like 20,000 characters in it...) the other changes are relatively easy; more about knowing what changes to make than about actually making them. If you actually analyze this screenshot, aside from the different fonts the only real formatting tricks that aren't supported / used by our current system are the indented sub-definitions and the use of color to highlight elements of the definition.

(so it's the perfect new feature, really - makes a huge difference and makes our app feel very new / revamped but requires little actual programming work)

 

[scykei]

Yup, amazing. I wonder if you could filter out certain aspects, like making it display a list of words with certain labels such as [動物學], [礦物] or [魚類] tags?

Another thing that I always use 21st century for, but I don't think would be possible after the big update is looking for names. 21st Century has a huge database of proper nouns and I frequently utilise this by typing in the transliterated Chinese characters in the search box with the full word search. That way I can identify what that word actually means in English. So maybe if you have proper noun tags, then it can search for stuff in (男子名), etc sections too!

I don't know if it's technically possible though, since words have multiple definitions.

 

[mikelove]

Yup, amazing. I wonder if you could filter out certain aspects, like making it display a list of words with certain labels such as [動物學], [礦物] or [魚類] tags?

Yes, the various under-the-hood search engine changes in 2.4 have actually made this much much easier to contemplate.

Another thing that I always use 21st century for, but I don't think would be possible after the big update is looking for names. 21st Century has a huge database of proper nouns and I frequently utilise this by typing in the transliterated Chinese characters in the search box with the full word search. That way I can identify what that word actually means in English. So maybe if you have proper noun tags, then it can search for stuff in (男子名), etc sections too!

No dedicated filter for it, but you can certainly still do that in the new version - is it not working for you now?

I don't know if it's technically possible though, since words have multiple definitions.

21C usually categorizes each sub-definition separately, but moot point anyway since if you search for a transliterated name it's unlikely there'd be many other irrelevant hits that would need to be filtered out.

 

[scykei]

Another thing that I always use 21st century for, but I don't think would be possible after the big update is looking for names. 21st Century has a huge database of proper nouns and I frequently utilise this by typing in the transliterated Chinese characters in the search box with the full word search. That way I can identify what that word actually means in English. So maybe if you have proper noun tags, then it can search for stuff in (男子名), etc sections too!

No dedicated filter for it, but you can certainly still do that in the new version - is it not working for you now?

It is working, but it might stop working after this: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3137

Sort of another reason to have full text Chinese search.

 

[mikelove]

It is working, but it might stop working after this: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3137

Sort of another reason to have full text Chinese search.

We pulled back from that idea - realized that keeping that feature working will have tremendous benefits later on when we start doing nifty new things with example sentences.

 

[radioman]

Im putting this in Android, but it applies to all products ... Probably mentioned before but...

Would it be possible to modify searches so that they span across English / Hanzi / Pinyin?

I think this useful because sometimes you know what you want to say in English, like the term "casual"... casual might have many ways that it can be said in Chinese. However, you know that the word was sui-something, maybe suiban, suiben, etc. So you type in the search string "casual sui" and it would find the right definition 随便.