2.0 Status Update

[mikelove]

We're now leaning towards abandoning the idea of a "Preview Release" altogether and making the first public release of 2.0 be a full-on beta version; i.e., something which is feature-complete and includes pretty much all the same functionality as the finished 2.0 but of course has lots and lots of bugs. We've come to the conclusion that any benefits we'd get from a Preview in terms of feedback, bug reports, "buzz," etc would probably not be sufficient to justify the (significant amount of) extra programming time needed to put one together, given the current state of the PlecoDict source code.

The downside of this is that it'll take longer for you to see the first public release, the upside is that when that release does come out it'll be a lot more interesting and useful than the Preview would have been. (nearly all the fun stuff like flashcards / audio / stroke order / etc would likely be available in the beta) And in general this should get the finished version to you a good bit faster than it would have been otherwise.

I'm not going to speculate in any way whatsoever about when this first beta version will be out; obviously we have a vested business interest in having a finished product out this spring, both for the sake of people cramming for final exams and people flying off to China for summer school, not to mention the fact that schools generally do their software buying in the springtime, so it follows from that that we'd want to have a beta out within the next month or two, but whether or not we can actually achieve that goal remains to be seen.

For what it's worth, though, our internal builds are getting pretty darn usable now, to the point that within a week or two I'll probably start carrying 2.0 around on my own Palm, so things are looking better than they have in quite a while on the development front.

 

[caesartg]

Cheers for the update, Mike.

Maybe I sound like a no-life (lately with my exams and messed up sleeping-patterns, I feel like one) but I've been checking the site at an unhealthily frequent rate, hoping for a release or news.

By the way, thinking a bit further ahead, in a couple of years time when Pleco v3 comes out, is it possible you'll be going Pocket PC only? Palm doesn't look like it'll be continuing further than the TX down the PalmOS line. Also, if that's the case, would you have some nice migration deal whereby for a reasonable fee Palm owners could transfer all their expensive dictionary licences across (giving up rights to Palm usage obviously)? Annoying question maybe but I'm just asking at this stage now that the dictionary licences are on the increase and that licence investment too obviously is a big factor for users. Just wondering if it's worth my while starting afresh on Pocket PC before investing more in dictionary licences (E.g. the new C-C dict and all the fresh stuff) for Palm that I'll only get a year-or-so worth of use out of. (The main reason I stuck with Palm is that I could use Docs2Go with Pleco and the interface is nice, but with Pleco's new functionality, my reasons for sticking with Palm, much as I like them, are reduced somewhat). I noticed you had some migration deal going before but at the time it looked like it would be better to just get two separate licences (one Palm, one Pocket PC) for a little extra expense and have a backup Pleco system.

All the best, Mike and any further updates on development are more than welcome!

Ben

 

[mikelove]

I suppose anything is possible, but it's highly unlikely we'll abandon Palm OS while it's still even remotely viable as a platform - we've put a lot of effort into Palm-specific optimizations for v2 and we don't want to throw that away too quickly, on top of which, in spite of all of the doom-and-gloom about Palm our Palm to PPC sales ratio is still about 60-40 at the moment. So V3 will almost certainly still work on Palm. And all of the necessary licenses for our Palm software are good until at least 2010, so it's unlikely there'd be any external pressure on us to discontinue it before them. But even if we did curtail our Palm development, it's not like all of our Palm software would magically stop working - the current version hasn't had any features added to it in almost 2 years now and it's still very usable.

As far as license transfers, though, unfortunately several of our licenses specifically require us to pay royalties again when people switch platforms, so there's only so much we can do in the way of platform-switching discounts; our current 40% rate is about as high as we can go. So if you're already leaning towards switching to Pocket PC anyway it would probably be a good idea to make that change now rather than later, much though I hate to steer people away from Palm.

 

[sfrrr]

I want, I want, I want my PD 2.x. I don't know how I've managed to wait this long, but it's getting harder and harder. Have pity on us. Give us some sort of sample, something to play with, to occupy our minds until the fully functioning 2.x is available. PLEEEZE.

Sandra

 

[caesartg]

Thanks Mike for your patience. I know you must be pretty busy just now.

I think I worked it out:

I've got a Palm Professional licence bought before July 1st 2006.

If I upgraded my Palm now ($100) and then migrated ($120) when I got a Chinese PPC, I would have a Complete+NWP PPC version for $220. However, if I held off on the upgrade and waited until I got a PPC (possibly in China) to FIRST migrate ($60) and THEN upgrade ($100), that would probably be $160. $220 and $160 for the same result - one Complete+NWP licence (PPC).

However, if I were to NOT upgrade and later bought a whole new Complete+NWP PPC licence, that would be $200 ($180+$20) and I would have TWO licences - a Professional Palm licence (the one I already have) and a Complete+NWP PPC licence. The most expensive option would be to upgrade my Palm licence to Complete ($100) AND buy a Complete+NWP PPC one ($200) - $300.

Did I get that boringly right? Of course, I understand a 60% migration rule isn't specifically given for the new Complete Palm and PPC versions yet, for obvious reasons and I know you'll probably finalise all of this at the launch.

If that's the case, then I have to chew over the usefulness or not of having 2 licences and whether to get a PPC now or later. I guess one advantage of retaining the Palm licence is >>>I could sell my Palm with software installed???<<< [I take it, being a per device licence, we're legally allowed to transfer ownership to a second-hand owner?????]


Ben

 

[vrixon]

Mike, you are now officially past "early January" and we still (somewhat impatiently :? ) wait for something to play with. I know you won't make promises that you cant keep, but please dont keep us hanging on for V2.x. The preview release became a "full blown Beta" and I fear that the first thing we see will be the commercial release - dont you trust us anymore? :?:

 

[mikelove]

Much though we'd like to ease sfrrr's and vrixon's pain, this really isn't a matter of trust, nor would a preview be as simple as sticking some files into a .zip archive and posting it on our server.

For one thing, the new copy-protection system isn't working yet, so in order to even distribute a Preview without actually violating several contracts we'd need to go out of our way to get that finished. And get the website set up to generate codes for it, because there'd be way too many requests for us to process manually. And unless we wanted to start charging people to download this preview (which we don't) we'd also have to go to the trouble of temporarily disabling several new features that we're required to pay license fees on, like the new stroke order diagrams. So we're talking at least two weeks of programmer time just to get the Preview-related licensing issues taken care of.

On top of that, for all of our talk about the Preview being hideously buggy there are at least a few bugs that we can comfortably live with now but which we really would have to fix in order to release it to the public, the sort of bugs that prevent the software from working unless you run it on a very particular Palm configuration or use it in a very specific way - the current experience would be a little like walking through a minefield, worrying that at any point you might do something seemingly innocuous like switching between E-C and C-E and have your Palm spontaneously crash on you. So another week or so of programmer time for that.

Now admittedly a lot of that programmer time will have to be spent at some point between now and when the beta version comes out, but the later we do it, the less of it we'll have to go back and re-do. If our non-US friends will forgive the America-centric metaphor, it's sort of like doing your income taxes before all of your 1099's are in - there'll inevitably be some little $4.37 worth of bank interest you forgot about that requires you to go back and re-do the entire form again.

And then, of course, there's the support problem. However much we may say that the preview version is unsupported, people are still going to write us if it doesn't work, and even if the response in most of those cases will be "sorry about that, guess you'll have to wait for the next version," it's still a lot of extra e-mail to deal with, not to mention a lot of unhappy customers. (given sfrrr's slightly-wacky Pocket PC configuration it's very likely she would be among them) And at this stage in development it wouldn't even be that helpful for bug-fixing, since in the (hopefully) month or two between now and when the beta comes out the code is going to change significantly enough that a lot of those bugs will disappear on their own and a lot of new bugs will be created where there were no bugs before.

We love the fact that people are so enthusiastic about the new version, and customers like the two of you are a big part of the reason why we're still in business and growing, but I'm sure you'd agree that the #1 goal here is to put out the best finished product possible, and once it became clear that putting out a Preview Release would negatively impact that the decision was pretty clear.

caesartg - yep, those numbers appear right according to the prices currently on the preview page. (which are subject to but unlikely to change) 60%'s the likeliest migration price, we *might* consider dropping it to 50% for some of the new higher-end bundles but it certainly wouldn't go lower than that and in that case you'd still be looking at a $50 premium for upgrading the Palm version first instead of switching to Pocket PC first.

And yes, since it's a per device license, as long as you'd bought a separate / independent / non-crossgrade Pocket PC version you could indeed transfer your Palm license to a new owner along with your Palm.

 

[vrixon]

Understood and understood. I still want it now but I do understand the cycles and loops you are going through. Even more so, I appreciate the effort you go to answering the comments and questions and suggestions in these forums. You still rate as the BEST (bar none) software company that I have ever dealt with ... only going back the last 30 years though.

Keep up the good work and I promise to shut up until you mention the date of release for V2 Beta ... well about V2 anyway!

 

[sfrrr]

Vaughan--I think you're a nicer person than I. I will make no such promise to shut up, but I do think that Mike's reason are rather irrefutable. Maybe I should stop checking in here--that might weaken the urgency. But I probably will stay around. It's too interesting tomiss.

Sandra

 

[daniu]

Hi!

Don't want to appear impatient but can we get some news here? It's been quite some time ...

regards
Daniel

 

[gato]

See this
viewtopic.php?t=901
we're not even committing to a season anymore. It'll be done when it's done and unfortunately I can't be much more specific than that.

 

[mikelove]

Yeah, our internal release date hasn't actually slipped that much (still waiting on the contractor issue, plus the new flashcard system is taking longer than expected to get right, but overall things are coming together nicely) but since we've been so consistently off on release dates it seems like any date I might announce would almost certainly turn out to be wrong.

So given the choice between a) keeping people waiting and b) lying to them, it seems like a) is a slightly better bet. In hindsight it was probably a bad move to even announce 2.0 until we had something pretty close to a beta version ready, if nobody knew about it (and only had a vague sense that a new version might be coming) then nobody would be complaining that it was taking too long.

But as of now there's officially NO release forecast for 2.0, I'm not even publicly committing to whether it'll be out this decade. At the same time, the work is (slowly) progressing and we're a lot farther along now than we were in December, so it may not be too much longer to wait...

 

[vrixon]

Do not be dejected about getting something right Mike. At least you have a mechanism to keep those interested informed (and hopefully this mechanism is not adding $ to the cost of the eventually released software that we are so patiently waiting for - not like some advertising campaigns).

I leave China at the end of the year though ... at least leave me with hope that I will get to use it in anger while still living on the mainland!

 

[Smoodo]

Release date guilt.

Hey Mike,

Don't be too hard on yourself with the release date. It's an opportunity to inspect what factors can be managed and which happen independently of your control. That should get better with time. It's very important to set dates and deadlines. I find that when I set deadlines for myself it signifies that I am committed to a decision and I seem to work harder as the deadline approaches. I frequently break stretched out deadlines into miniature deadlines so I can experience success more often than failure and stay motivated and not vexed about what I couldn't anticipate.

In one breath, your doing great, your product is great, dare to set another deadline and create ways for yourself to enjoy success more often.

 

[mikelove]

Thanks, guys. I'm not particularly dejected, really, just a little frustrated with how long everything is taking. (some of the reasons for which are indeed beyond my control)

vrixon - certainly reason for optimism on that, yes.

Smoodo - we have set another deadline, and I'm actually pretty optimistic that we'll have the first beta ready by then, but this time I'm choosing not to share said deadline publicly as I don't want to disappoint people yet again if we fail to meet it. When I was working at Microsoft we had very clear sets of milestone deadlines (generally one every couple of weeks), several of which we rather spectacularly missed, but since we didn't make them public it wasn't that big a deal when we did.

 

[vrixon]

Now I AM worried ... are you returning to your old Microsoft habits? Please tell us this cannot be true!

 

[vrixon]

I nearly deleted this post before it was posted, but I thought in the end you would like to know what is going through heads on this side of the exchange too ... sorry for the ramble, but you got me thinking.

To be honest; it is much better to be honest.
I need to know what your significant PUBLIC deadlines are (and to beleive that they are realistic) - I have to plan when I am going to allocate funds to upgrade our office software. For an Australian, that means a big difference between 30 Jun and 01 Jul (our change of Financial Year) - and right now I am planning to spend this FY. In fact for an Australian goverment office it means a big difference between 15 May and 16 May (our processing cuttoff for the FY). If I don't spend the money, I probably wont get it next year, or I will at eleast lose this years software money and the money that was going to other software next year will have to pay for Pleco ... I lose on both sides. My choice is to now buy the current release of GPS stuff I was waiting to get in September (their update cycle) and wait until after July for 2.0. I am already betting on a Pleco V3.0 in late 2008/early 2009 (you seem to manage good 2-yearly jumps in capability) that will require the same level of upgrade and that coincides nicely with my hardware replacement program. As stated previously, I leave China this year so I am putting these plans in place for someone else to execute ... hense the need for something to hang a hat on.

I know that this is not your problem, and that it is probably not a problem for the majority of your customers - but they are not writing this post! I know that you know we are only talking about three licences in my case (possibly four). My frustration is managing a particularly small budget in a small office of a LARGE organisation - I get very little flexibility in software and I have (had) it all pointed at Pleco this year.

If you are scared of disappointing us because you miss a scheduled release date for reasons beyond your control then you are underestimating how important the users that regularly visit here find your software. If you have given us unrealistic expectations just to hype up interest (hello Mr Gates & co), then you do not deserve the praise and support that you are getting here. I am sure that the later is not true - you have a pretty loyal "fan" base out here and we can be the ones spreading the word for you.

I am still telling people to purchase your software in preference to any other English-Chinese-English dictionary - electronic or bookbound! We are happy to wait for the improvements, and will be glad whenever they arrive. But don't treat us as though we are so fickle that a missed deadline will mean lost support.

We watch all of the issues ... when you say purchasers will get a free upgrade if they buy 1.x; when you explain why the new dictionaries are better/not included/giving you trouble; why you persist in supporting the Palm platform (sorry, I left too long ago now) and so on.

Keep up the good work, keep setting deadlines and keep providing realistic expectations for your return customers. We are smart, most of us work to deadlines which we regularly miss and have to explain.

We understand. We trust. We expect you to do the same.

 

[Mads]

I don't get it :?

It doesn't matter if you buy now or later, you still have the right to upgrade to 2.0 when its out.

The software thats available now works great. Thats probably why I'm not too concerned about when 2.0 comes out. It seems to me, that since Mike has missed so many deadlines, he rather come out with 2.0 like boom here it is!

 

[Aunty]

Although I dream of the next version every night, and lust for it every time I travel with my PDA and a huge stroke-order book, for me it's even more important that when it arrives it works well. I'd rather wait another year or two and have it be the best it can reasonably be, than have an early release followed by hasty fixes for some nasty bugs or omission of features that were 90% ready.

I'd be happy to try out a beta, knowing it's a beta, but when it's time for the real thing I want to show the world what it can do without it having signs of a hasty release. When something goes wrong, I feel confident that it's my fault and a little study will fix it, because that's what it's like working with PlecoDict, when you're nervous and ignorant and easily confused it doesn't let you down.

We know Mike is capable of much goodness, and I think he deserves whatever time it takes to feel comfortable that he's given it his best. We owe that to him.

That's why I haven't been posting in this thread despite the intensity of my hunger for the new version. Maybe others have kept quiet for similar reasons.

 

[lmcjipo]

I don't get it :?

It doesn't matter if you buy now or later, you still have the right to upgrade to 2.0 when its out.

The software thats available now works great. Thats probably why I'm not too concerned about when 2.0 comes out. It seems to me, that since Mike has missed so many deadlines, he rather come out with 2.0 like boom here it is!

I don't get it either.

This year, as a new user, it doesn't make a difference because we are currently after July 1, 2006 and new users will be entitled to a free upgrade to 2.0. This was my suggestion to another user at viewtopic.php?t=896

If the previous poster or another poster needs to spend the money this year/month/week for whatever reason, then buy PlecoDict v1.0.3 today. PlecoDict v1.0.3 is currently a very good Chinese-English dictionary. You will get Pleco 2.0 for free when it eventually comes out.

Because of the free upgrade to new users, the only issue that I can see is if you currently need what Pleco 2.0 will be capable of doing (speech, stroke order, etc.) but PlecoDict v1.0.3 is not capable of doing, then it probably wouldn't make sense to buy it right away since you will be getting a product that does "half" of what you want. For example: If a company were selling a speech recognition product that didn't work with WordPerfect but I needed it to work with WordPerfect, regardless of whether they promised me a free upgrade to the next version which would support WordPerfect, I would not buy their product because their current product doesn't do what I need it to do. If I needed to spend the money right away, I would evaluate the company, the product that doesn't currently suit my needs, etc. to see if I should spend my money on this product or continue to shop for another product that does the speech recognition of WordPerfect that I want.

Since I purchased my license of PlecoDict v1.0.3 before July 1, 2006, I will have to pay for Pleco 2 when it eventually comes out. I don't mind waiting. When it comes out as a final release where certain existing users are asked to pay for it (which is fine), certain existing users will get it for free (fine also), and new users are asked to buy it, I would like to see a polished product. I don't want to see Pleco 2.0 come out just for the sake of coming out without all the new features that are/were mentioned or where it was a final release and it was very buggy. I think that this would upset a great number of users as well as damage the reputation of a company/person.

I agree with you that for my needs, the current product works very well (I'm using it on a PalmOS system). Since I'm one of those users that will have to pay for version 2.0, I'm obviously going to evaluate whether the improvements are worth it for me in order to purchase it. The additional features mentioned sound great but right now, I'm currently happy with version 1.0.3.

I deal with other companies that aren't as customer orientated as Mike is here.

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK MIKE!!!!!!!!