Windows 8

[HuShifang]

Put me down as one more vote for a Windows 8 port. My PC laptop combination of Wenlin, 漢語大詞典, and zdic.net is getting a bit unwieldy, and with Microsoft Surface promising to be a tablet that's a tool rather than a toy, I'm eager for a Pleco edition on it. (iPhone is fine on-the-go, but no iOS hardware is really appropriate for serious productivity, and as I start on my dissertation and all the Chinese document reading it entails, I could use Pleco on a more serious platform.)

PS - will the 古文 dictionaries be coming soon?

 

[mikelove]

Put me down as one more vote for a Windows 8 port. My PC laptop combination of Wenlin, 漢語大詞典, and zdic.net is getting a bit unwieldy, and with Microsoft Surface promising to be a tablet that's a tool rather than a toy, I'm eager for a Pleco edition on it. (iPhone is fine on-the-go, but no iOS hardware is really appropriate for serious productivity, and as I start on my dissertation and all the Chinese document reading it entails, I could use Pleco on a more serious platform.)

Well we just need to see how Windows 8 sells - if it turns into another Vista then it's hard to justify supporting it, particularly given Microsoft's fondness for discarding newly-introduced APIs; a failed Windows 8 might mean a totally different and non-backwards-compatible programming model when they actually get tablets right in Windows 9.

PS - will the 古文 dictionaries be coming soon?

A beta of one of them should be, yes.

 

[darkNiGHTS]

So far Windows 8 seems to be selling better than Windows Vista. Not as good as Windows 7, but W7 sold so well because it was a much needed upgrade to Vista. I guess we'll know how successful it is this holidays.

You could make one app and have it run on Windows 8 desktop, Windows RT, and Windows Phone 8! That would be super cool.

 

[mikelove]

So far Windows 8 seems to be selling better than Windows Vista. Not as good as Windows 7, but W7 sold so well because it was a much needed upgrade to Vista. I guess we'll know how successful it is this holidays.

You could make one app and have it run on Windows 8 desktop, Windows RT, and Windows Phone 8! That would be super cool.

Well we can think about it if WP8 proves popular, but we're a long way away from knowing that - seems unlikely to happen from holiday sales alone, particularly not when they're up against the Nexus 4 and iPhone 5, but a few more iterations and they might start to gain some traction.

 

[Loriquero]

I got a surface RT last week and I'm totally loving it, it has some little speed issues that I expect to be improved with each update, the apps are coming at good pace, specially the chinese ones (QQ, weibo, renren...) having a usb port is just so convenient and office is... office!!!... transforms an expensive toy in a real deal for productivity purposes without the battery limitations of x86 architecture...

I think I don't need to say how much I would like to have pleco in my surface Yes, it would be nice to have a offline dict on the road but I don't need that much the dictionary itself because I have my smartphone for that purpose, What I would really like to have is the reader app on surface. I can still use the other functions on my phone.

 

[mikelove]

I think I don't need to say how much I would like to have pleco in my surface Yes, it would be nice to have a offline dict on the road but I don't need that much the dictionary itself because I have my smartphone for that purpose, What I would really like to have is the reader app on surface. I can still use the other functions on my phone.

The phone is the biggest problem with all of this - people by and large aren't inclined to pay much to use an app on a tablet that they already own on a phone, and Windows Phone 8 phones aren't exactly flying off the shelves (3 week back order for the iPhone 5, Nexus 4 sells out in less than an hour, but you can walk into a couple dozen AT&T stores in New York right now and walk out with a Lumia 920). Even if the Surface proves popular (and I'm skeptical of that as the only companies that have had any success against Apple in the tablet market so far have done it by beating them on price), it's unlikely to be lucrative enough for us by itself to justify doing a Windows 8 version - people won't buy Pleco again on Windows if they've already got it on their smartphone, and they won't buy it on Windows for the first time if they can't also use their purchases on their smartphone.

Bringing over just one or two parts of our software is tricky, because then we've got only the revenue from those parts (and it's not like many people are going to buy a dozen expensive dictionary add-ons for something that's just a reader app) to underwrite the large cost of getting the "infrastructure" stuff working - database engine, fonts, DRM, in-app purchases, settings, etc; an awful lot of the development time for a Windows 8 port would apply even in a reader-only version.

If Windows 8 does prove generally popular enough to make a Pleco port financially viable for us we'll probably do one, but they don't seem to be anywhere near that point yet - I'd say it'll take at least another year of hardware / software updates before we have any inkling of whether Windows 8 is actually going to succeed with consumers.

 

[Loriquero]

Yup I completely get your point... If I were you, probably wouldn't start developing anything for windows right now neither...

Chrome for windows has really nice chinese reading tools... they just work online but they do the trick just fine... If I had the surface pro, I don't think I would be asking for pleco because I could get some alternatives for the reading app... but there is no alternative right now on windows rt... So as a consumer I cannot do anything but wait... Is the cost the early adopter pays.

Anyway... let's talk again about this matter next year meanwhile I hope Pleco's android app can get even better!

辛苦啦

 

[cjbarth]

In modern application development, "release early, release often" is the mantra and works well to get and keep customers interested. The one thing that no other Chinese application for Windows Phone has is the option for multiple or custom dictionaries. Since WP8 supports native code now, why not do something really simple, like a CE-EC dictionary program only. However, include the option to add in some of your free dictionaries from your site. That would be a start to keep you in the minds of people on the WP platform.

Adding the option to add a custom / user dictionary could be a next easy step that you could charge for, which would then set you up to sell your premium dictionaries. At this point you'd have 2 features none of your competitors have: custom /user dictionaries and premium dictionaries. If there is continued interest, then you could develop more; if not, at least you have a presence that is still better than others in unique ways.

(Interestingly enough, considering consumer interest in WP8 products, not developing at least something to get your name out there seems very silly: http://www.phonedog.com/rankings/smartphones/. Also, the Nokia 920 is sold out in many places, including AmazonWireless at last check.)

Personally, there are two applications that I feel I can't live without: a custom application written for Windows Mobile (largely replaced by a web application now, future unknown), and Pleco because of it's custom / user dictionary feature (I also really like the premium dictionaries, as I feel they add a lot of value). I have Windows Mobile because of these, and I'm resisting going to iPhone (which I really don't like) and Android (which with version 4.0 is finally likable). I do like WP and how it works, but won't move to it unless it supports at least one of my two critical applications, or there is an alternative.

 

[mikelove]

In modern application development, "release early, release often" is the mantra and works well to get and keep customers interested. The one thing that no other Chinese application for Windows Phone has is the option for multiple or custom dictionaries. Since WP8 supports native code now, why not do something really simple, like a CE-EC dictionary program only. However, include the option to add in some of your free dictionaries from your site. That would be a start to keep you in the minds of people on the WP platform.

It's not simple in any sense - would take months and months of work, time during which we would not be working on new features for either of our other platform apps; keeping us in the minds of people on WP would increase opportunities for our competitors to gain ground on us on iOS and Android.

(Interestingly enough, considering consumer interest in WP8 products, not developing at least something to get your name out there seems very silly: http://www.phonedog.com/rankings/smartphones/. Also, the Nokia 920 is sold out in many places, including AmazonWireless at last check.)

Consumer interest is a rather vague metric - we need to see that they're actually threatening to carve out a meaningful chunk of market share, which right now they're not. We only started working on Android once it was clear that huge numbers of people were actually buying / using Android phones.

And given that it seems unlikely that WP8 will manage to firmly establish itself in the next ~3 months, there's also the looming (and thus far little-discussed) question of BlackBerry 10 - admittedly very very long delayed, but BlackBerry certainly has a lot more consumer awareness than Windows in the smartphone space, and has some more obvious distinct features (like delightful hardware keyboards). I don't expect either platform to overtake iOS or Android in the near future, but I'm not even sure if WP8 will overtake BlackBerry.

Personally, there are two applications that I feel I can't live without: a custom application written for Windows Mobile (largely replaced by a web application now, future unknown), and Pleco because of it's custom / user dictionary feature (I also really like the premium dictionaries, as I feel they add a lot of value). I have Windows Mobile because of these, and I'm resisting going to iPhone (which I really don't like) and Android (which with version 4.0 is finally likable). I do like WP and how it works, but won't move to it unless it supports at least one of my two critical applications, or there is an alternative.

But that doesn't really make a great business case for Pleco because a) you're an existing customer and would (presumably) expect to get at least a sizable discount on our Windows Phone 8 software (and actually many people would expect to get it for free and refuse on principle to pay for it if it wasn't - we've seen this phenomenon on every previous new platform, anyway), and b) you're willing to let Pleco support influence your decision of which platform to use. For WP8 to be successful for us it has to bring us a lot of brand new customers, and those customers have to be willing to spend sizable amounts of money on apps - we've found tons of those customers on iOS and even a very respectable number of them on Android, but we're a long way away from having any confidence that they're going to be around in significant numbers on WP8.

 

[cjbarth]

Aside from a great product, I must complement you on your responsiveness. Few other companies I've done business with communicate with their customers as you do. I understand, though don't entirely agree with, your business case. Of course, since your profitable, your obviously doing something right.

 

[skillphiliac]

I, too, wanted to add what has already been said:

I would throw my money at you if you were to develop a desktop application. I am sick and tired of half-assed software for PC. Wenlin? Yeah, I use it - but rather out of necessity. It is clunky, it is ugly, it has some nice references but dictionaries? Not all that much to be found.

I get how you feel about this, and you have a nice thing going with the best software ever. Still, I think this is something that absolutely has to be expanded upon. Sometime. Do a kickstarter and I'll throw in 500 bucks or so.

I sometimes dream Mike Love dedicated his time to developing a word processor, allowing me to comfortably translate things. And then I cry.



Other than that... tremendous job on everything you've done so far. Enjoying the new dictionaries a lot by the way.

 

[mikelove]

I get how you feel about this, and you have a nice thing going with the best software ever. Still, I think this is something that absolutely has to be expanded upon. Sometime. Do a kickstarter and I'll throw in 500 bucks or so.

Thanks, but actually Kickstarter wouldn't help with this, we'd have to find a programmer we could give that money to and that's going to be challenging given the complexity of our code base. The only things we could feasibly Kickstart would be content- or licensing-related, where the problem is a lack of capital rather than a lack of Pleco staff time. (I do have few ideas on that front, actually - the big question is which one to try first, a decision that'll be heavily influenced by sales of our next few dictionary releases)

I sometimes dream Mike Love dedicated his time to developing a word processor, allowing me to comfortably translate things. And then I cry.

Heh, got half a notebook filled with designs from that from the pre-iOS era... seriously, if the iPhone hadn't come along and we'd continued to be a Windows Mobile shop for another year or two (before Android had gotten to a point where we had to deal with that - Google originally bought Android as an anti-Microsoft play) you'd probably be using Pleco for Windows right now.

Other than that... tremendous job on everything you've done so far. Enjoying the new dictionaries a lot by the way.

Thanks! Many more of those coming.

 

[Raesu]

Came to check on any update, unfortunately none

Anyway, anyone else looking for Chinese practice on Win8 or WP8, PPTV has great apps out already. Free tv shows, movies, etc

Still carry my iPhone around when I need Pleco. Can't help but dream of how beautiful it could by on my 920.

 

[bcmark]

I think any kind of Windows program would be great, even if it isn't clearly a cross platform program. Right now, we don't have any desktop programs comparable to the mobile Pleco program.

 

[mikelove]

I think any kind of Windows program would be great, even if it isn't clearly a cross platform program. Right now, we don't have any desktop programs comparable to the mobile Pleco program.

Honestly, we're just waiting for Apple to announce a converged Mac OS / iOS release, or Google a converged Chrome OS / Android one - we're interested in doing a desktop version, but we want to do it as a port from one of our existing mobile apps rather than as a totally new project. (it's likely that Chrome OS at least will be runnable on pretty much any PC, though)

 

[Raesu]

Me here to bother again. I've seen Google execs say they have no plans to merge Android and Chrome, so in the meantime...

Make a barebones Pleco Windows 8 app, sell it for $4.99 and cash in! I'm dying for a Chinese dictionary on my Surface and desktop (let alone my windows phone...)

 

[mikelove]

Me here to bother again. I've seen Google execs say they have no plans to merge Android and Chrome, so in the meantime...

They'll be saying that right up until they merge Android and Chrome. Or discontinue Chrome altogether in favor of a desktop version of Android running the Chrome web browser.

Make a barebones Pleco Windows 8 app, sell it for $4.99 and cash in! I'm dying for a Chinese dictionary on my Surface and desktop (let alone my windows phone...)

Honestly, I don't think we'd support Windows 8 unless we did a "real" version of Pleco on it; there's no sense in diluting our brand with watered-down apps. And I haven't seen any numbers lately to make me feel like a Win8 version would be a smart move business-wise, or like Microsoft's long-term prospects are particularly good in general.

 

[cjbarth]

Saying that you aren't sure about the future of Microsoft seems strange given their 5-year revenue growth chart: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=mi ... venue&lk=4. I can't imagine what OS in the next 5 years would replace 90% of all desktop computers in the world. Linux has been trying for years, and OS X sales have not been going up at a rate that would bring them anywhere near 50% in the next 5 years, particularly since in the past year it seems OS X usage might have gone down and in the past 5 years, when the huge Mac purchasing 'boom' took off, the installed base couldn't even break 10% (http://w3counter.com/globalstats.php). All versions of OS X that have ever been sold (and are still being used) still don't have an installed base larger than the 12-year-old Windows XP.

In any case, it isn't about diluting your brand as it is building your brand. If you have nothing on the platform, but others do, which brand is in peoples mind? Everyone has to start somewhere. iOS and Android weren't released with every single feature and dictionary were they? Why does a Windows version have to then?

 

[mikelove]

Saying that you aren't sure about the future of Microsoft seems strange given their 5-year revenue growth chart: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=mi ... venue&lk=4. I can't imagine what OS in the next 5 years would replace 90% of all desktop computers in the world. Linux has been trying for years, and OS X sales have not been going up at a rate that would bring them anywhere near 50% in the next 5 years, particularly since in the past year it seems OS X usage might have gone down and in the past 5 years, when the huge Mac purchasing 'boom' took off, the installed base couldn't even break 10% (http://w3counter.com/globalstats.php). All versions of OS X that have ever been sold (and are still being used) still don't have an installed base larger than the 12-year-old Windows XP.

Desktop computers don't matter so much anymore, that's the problem.

Microsoft had the opportunity to parlay their dominance on desktops into dominance on mobiles, and they blew it because as soon as they beat Palm (or, more accurately, allowed Palm to beat themselves), they left Windows Mobile to stagnate rather than seeing it as the logical future evolution of Windows.

This probably had as much to do with inter-departmental infighting as anything else (in fact, based on a couple of meetings I had while I was working there I'm fairly confident that was the case), but nevertheless, by the time they actually figured out that Windows' future lay on mobiles it was already too late. If Windows 8 (or something like it) had come out in 2008 Microsoft would own the market now, but as things stand, the phones aren't selling that well and the tablets aren't selling well at all, and without those components it's very hard as a developer to get excited about Windows 8.

Microsoft may well carry on being highly profitable, but going forward I see most of those profits as coming from the business rather than the consumer side of things. (even more so if the rumors about the next XBOX having an always-on internet connection are true - it's dumbfounding to me that nobody there has figured out yet what $4M Kickstarter tallies mean about the future direction of high-end gaming)

In any case, it isn't about diluting your brand as it is building your brand. If you have nothing on the platform, but others do, which brand is in peoples mind? Everyone has to start somewhere. iOS and Android weren't released with every single feature and dictionary were they? Why does a Windows version have to then?

They were, actually. iOS went without flashcards for a few months and this caused a great deal of unhappiness even though we promised from day 1 that they were coming. Android had all of our major features from the get-go. Pocket Oxford didn't come to iOS because we didn't have the rights to it worked out yet, but it's on iOS now, and it was available from the beginning on Android; all of our other dictionaries have been available from the beginning on every platform we support.

As far as branding, I just don't believe that Pleco is so unbelievably awesome as to induce people to launch their exciting new Chinese dictionary app on a platform that we don't support in order to avoid competing with us. If I were looking to launch a new Chinese dictionary system, I wouldn't launch on Windows Phone, I'd launch on iOS or Android, build my brand there and then parlay that to other platforms; iOS if I want to make money, Android if I want to get a zillion people using it.

 

[cjbarth]

In case you are interested: porting support from iOS to Win8 is now available from MS.

Windows 8 QuickStart Kits
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