Suggestions for Flashcards

[Luo Yang]

Thhis would be a good work around for many/some of teh cards. However it would only be good for those that were reviewed after teh set time. Any cards that were reviewed before that time would be dropped (say at 11:59). I could set the time back earlier, but the same problem holds true as above, it will still pick up the level 2 cards (though probably not the other cards that happen to fall on this day after a day/week/month/year rest as scheduled).

I may play around with this more to see what I can do with the "Limit Cards to" option.

Ihaven't tried this yet, but I think the most accurate work around that will pick up all the correct cards is to change the time settings on the Palm. If the Palm thinks it is still 9pm I have more time.

Thank you much for your suggestion. I will try playing around with it (although I rarely study after midnight anyhow).

Luo Yang

Edit to Post: After writing, I was doing something else and was thinking about your suggestion. I realized that in my specific case all I would need to do is limit the cards to Level 1. Assuming that I have gone through the deck at least once that day the only ones left for review would be the ones that stayed at level 1. Thank you for getting me thinking more about the settings.

 

[mikelove]

Yes, limiting the session to Rank 1 cards should definitely let you do this. I suppose a big part of the problem with the current system is that it doesn't make things like this as intuitive as it could - it's not even so much a matter of the interface being difficult as it is of the options being more about what they do than about what you can do with them.

Something almost more like a Windows-style "wizard", where you basically tell the program "I want to do X" and it takes care of figuring out how exactly to do X, might let people make better use of the system's existing capabilities (and of any new ones we might eventually add). Anyway, given the overwhelming amount of interest in the flashcard system this is definitely something we're going to be spending a lot of time on.

 

[Luo Yang]

Interface and Settings Preset suggestion

The interface does take some getting used to, but it isn't really difficult once you get used to it (in my opinion). Even if it had a more "Windows" feel to it people would still need to learn what the features are and how to use them.

Suggestion:
It would be nice if you could set all your test and card settings (as well as possibly which decks are selected) and save them as a settings file. Then you could create several settings files. The flashcard main screen could then give the option to choose which settings you want to use. Then if there are several settings you commonly use, instead of needing to go to each of the relevant places and change the settings you could just load up the appropriate settings preset.

Note: I personally wouldn't change the settings for "Rank" and "Flag" as those are more long term and wouldn't change from day to day (at least not how I use the program) so I didn't mention them above.

 

[mikelove]

Good suggestion; actually this is one of the many features that was dropped when 1.0 started to get seriously behind schedule, but it's certainly something we'd like to add in a future release. We might eventually even let you maintain multiple rank/flag settings, though that's a little more involved since it would require keeping extra data for each flashcard.

 

[Luo Yang]

Confirm for "All"/"None"

It would be useful to have a "Do you want to deselect all..." and "Do you want to select all..." confirmation screen for teh flashcards.

Those two buttons are easy to bump (which I just did, making me think of this suggestion) and can be troublesome to fix. Once I check a flashcard file I never uncheck it. I just let the cards work their way through the system until they disappear (get to level 11, which is set not to test). I have many files checked. When they all get checked/unchecked it takes a while to figure out which ones should be checked.

As with a few of my other suggestions, this doesn't interfere with the program at all and isn't a high priorty item, but I wanted to mention it as it would be a nice little bonus.

Thank you for all your work!
Luo Yang

 

[mikelove]

Well with things like this there's always the risk of annoying people with too many warning messages, but I see your point. However, this might become less of a problem once we get around to adding a flashcard list category feature - with a system like that, you could keep all of the lists you still need to review in a particular category and then move a list to a different category one you finish reviewing it. (I suppose this is an argument for letting you assign more than one category to a list)

 

[Luo Yang]

warning messages

Even as I was writing the last message I thought about the "too many warning messages" possiblity. Perhaps there could be a checkbox under preferencess for whether to show or not show warning messages. Then this would only need to be dealt with once for those who don't want the warnings.... But then there is always teh issue of too many options to deal with on the Preferences screen.

Whatever, I just figure I will mention as many suggestions as possible as I think of them to give you more ideas to think about whether you want to add or not.

Thank you,
Luo Yang

Also, I look forward to seeing the enhancements you are currently working on. It sounds like an already great program is just going to keep getting better! Now there just needs to be an option to plug my Palm directly into my brain to feed these words in and totally eliminate the dictionary and flashcard option altogether.

 

[Luo Yang]

Minimum days to wait before showing cards of next rank

This may be a bit hard to impliment, but I was just trying to set my flashcards to so something similar and wanted to make teh suggestion.

The suggestion is to have an option to have the system wait a minimum number of days before cards are shown after they advance in rank. I will try to explain what I mean by explaining what I am trying to do.

Currently I have my level 1 cards set to repeat endlessly utill they go to level 2 (spacing: 0)
The level 2 cards are set to repeat the next day. (Spacing 1)
The level 3 cards are set to repeat 3 days later (spacing 3). and so on.

I would like to be able to keep the level 1 cards as they are. However I would like the level 2 cards to again keep showing the card (on the same day) until I get it right (or until I get it wrong 3 times and it moves down to a level 1 and keeps circulating there). There is no way to do this automatically.

Problem:
If I set level 2 cards to spacing 1 they will only show once per day (until I miss them 3 times and they move back to number 1)
If I set level 2 cards to spacing 0 they will keep repeating, but they will repeat on teh same day there were on level 1. Thus they will move from level 1 to level 3 all on one day.

I am wanting to drill them on level one until I get them correct once, then have it wait a day and the next day drill them again until I get them correct.

An option to "Wait a minimum of ## days after increasing in rank before showing the card again" would be useful. (This could even be set to a one day default since additional days can be added using the "Rank Testing Settings" options. If a 1 day default is set the option could be "Wait a minimum of 1 day to display cards after they have advanced in rank".)

I could then have teh level 2 cards set to "spacing: 0", so it would repeat, but it would wait until the next day after moving from level 1 before starting that drilling cycle.

If that doesn't make any sense and if you are interested in an attempt at a better explanation let me know.

Luo Yang

Edit to Post: Or another way around this would be under "Card Settings">> "Set up" to have a check box for each level that could be selected if you want the cards at that level to be endlessly cycled until they are either answered correctly or missed enough times to go down one level. This way the spacing would remain consistent and when it came time to review that card it could keep recyling without needing to wait the set time again.

 

[mikelove]

I think I understand, but this is rather tricky... given that the vast majority of our users never read the instruction manual, a feature like this that defies a 5-word explanation isn't likely to see very much use. Also, this particular feature would require storing additional data in the flashcard entries, since in addition to storing the date last reviewed and the date created we'd have to store the date the card last changed rank. I suppose there are a number of other ways that we could use that information, but since changing the file format is an enormous hassle (requiring us to write a converter for the old format) this would have to wait until we've accumulated a lot of other changes we want to make, which probably won't happen for several versions.

But this speaks to my earlier theme about providing SuperMemo-esque don't-have-to-think-about-it automation for some people but letting those who wish to customize the software do so to their heart's content. Perhaps there's something to be said for implementing a rule-based system for card selection and rank changes - rather than just setting threshholds, you could chain together a specific set of conditions in which a card would jump rank or show up in a session. This would have to be paired with a system for saving settings, of course, and we'd probably also want a system for exchanging your flashcard settings with other users (and not just the cards themselves), but those are two things we should probably be thinking about anyway.

 

[Luo Yang]

brainstorm for not needing to store additional data

The system currently stores:
1. The last date reviewed
2. the number correct in current rank
3. the number tested in current rank

If the last reviewed day was today and the number tested in rank is zero, it would require (if I am thinking correctly) that the card had either:
1. moved up in rank today
2. moved down in rank today

Under "Card Settings">>"Set up" for each rank setting there could be a check box "Allow Cards of this rank to endlessly loop once they reach the time they are scheduled to be viewed (the number of days selected in 'spacing')." (That description would need to be shortened and a longer explanation put in the help file.)

If that box is unchecked the system would operate exactly as it does now.

If that box is checked the system would:
Check if the card is of the specified rank (a rank set to loop).
----- If "No" the system will operate as now
----- If "Yes" the system will check the times tested in current rank.
---------- If "0" the system will check if the card is scheduled to be tested today (by looking at the last reviewed date) and display or not display accordingly.
---------- If ">0" the system will know the card has been viewed today (and thus is scheduled for today) and will loop the card.

The aboved proposed system is using a 1 day default. I haven't thought about ways to have a user defined waiting time (but I also dont think it is necessary since the system already has a system for waiting a certain number of days).

There may be a glitch in my plan above, but it seems to work to me.


That all being said. This is just one suggestion in my making every suggestion I encounter. The program is already great and I know you have many exciting enhancements you are wanting to make. I figure seeing more suggestions will give you ideas to choose from (though they won't all be implimented) in developing the program in ways you see best.

Thank you for all the work you have done and continue to do to make our study easier!
Luo Yang

 

[Luo Yang]

Re: Buttons have two features

I previously gave the following suggestions. Since then I have found that this is partially possible and would like to mention it again both as a hint for users and as a more refined suggestion.

When setting the hardware buttons to navigate flashcards. It is not necessary to set a button for "Right". If you have a button set for "Show" hitting teh same button again will be registered as "Right". (that is the hint).

My suggestion is that a button could have a similar function but for "Wrong". The first time the button is hit it will simply "Show". If the button is hit again it will be registered as "Wrong".

Currently the Palm's buttons (hardware) can be set to navigate the flashcards (right, wrong, open, etc). It would be nice to have the option to have the same button have two different features in some cercumstances. Example: Allow one button to be set as teh button to open the card and also the button to select the card as correct. Another button could be set to also open teh card and then select it as incorrect. That way, the first time you hit the button it will open it, the second time you hit it it will record your answer.

This is not at all an urgent request. I just figure I will make suggestions as I am using the program.

Thank you for creating such a wonderful study tool!

Luo Yang

 

[IronPhantom]

An option to have the flashcard test and review list display both the traditional character and simplified character would be GREAT.

So in our flash card file if we list the Traditional (or simplified) version of the character (e.g. 學), in the pleco processing it would have both formats listed such as for example:

學/学

The current course I'm taking at the university is having us learn BOTH the Traditional form and simplifed. *sigh*

 

[Luo Yang]

Off Topic: Simplified/Traditional

IronPhantom,
I only know the simplified script. I am curious, does there come a point when you learn the rules for converting from Traditional to Simplified (I figure Simplfied to Traditional isn't so straight forward), or is there still a lot of just having to memorize both forms?

Either way that would be a nice feature. I am not learning Traditional, and don't really want to invest the energy in learning both, but also wouldn't mind seeing them just to get used to them.

Just curious,
Luo Yang

 

[mikelove]

Luo Yang - thanks for taking the time to clarify your idea. This seems like it would work, though only with the "Round repetition spacing to nearest day" option enabled - otherwise, the system wouldn't know when to stop looping, since it wouldn't know whether or not it was within the same "day" that the card first began testing. However, if we also implement the previously-suggested option of letting you set the start of a "day" to something other than midnight, we could leave the repetition rounding option permanently on (since there would no longer be much of a reason to turn it off), which would make this more readily usable.

I agree with your other suggestion about right/wrong - in fact it would probably be best if instead of making the "Show" button double as "Right" we made the "Right" and "Wrong" buttons double as "Show". But those buttons are already being used by some people who don't want to bother revealing a card but simply mark it right/wrong based on whether they recall it, so perhaps along with this we'd want to add a new option in Test Settings which would skip the reveal part altogether so that those people would still be covered.

IronPhantom - good idea, I believe this was actually possible in one of the beta versions so it certainly makes sense to bring it back. Perhaps we could even come up with some kind of a testing mode where it would show you one version and prompt you to enter the other - it would have to be self-scored, because given the common elements between the traditional and simplified versions of most characters it would be almost impossible to come up with a challenging multiple-choice list, but if we just offered an option to limit the cards in a session to those with differing simplified and traditional versions and another option to initially reveal only the simplified or traditional characters, we could put together a pretty useful tool.

 

[koreth]

The tweak I want to the repetition spacing system is even simpler than all the ones discussed here. I just want a way to change from "X days since last shown" to "X days since I last got it right." I think, perhaps naively, that that's as simple as not updating the last-shown date if I click the "got it wrong" button. That way it'll keep repeating the cards I get wrong until I get them right, no matter what rank they are, without affecting any other aspect of the repetition spacing system.

Possible?

 

[johnh113]

flashcard suggestions

Dear Mike,

The flashcards work very well for me. I have 3 suggestions.
1. Sometimes when I hit the "reveal" button, it seems as if the button bounces. That is, it acts as if I hit the button twice when I only intended to hit it once. Maybe you could implement a timer so that a certain time (250ms?) would have to pass before accepting another press.
2. I would like the forward/back buttons to work in flashcard mode. Only going back one card would be sufficient. Sometimes I'm going through the cards pretty quickly, and then want to go back and see something on the card that I just left. This could also serve as a work around for suggestion 1 above.
3. Some of the flashcard lists are very big. This makes it hard to learn the cards. I find it is easier to learn the cards if I can learn some smaller number of them at a time. For instance, the HSK Level 2 is 2018 flashcards. I would like to see them maybe 25 at a time. Learn those and then get the next 25. I suppose I could go into "manage flashcards" and make some new lists and copy 25 words at a time for 81 times, but it seems that this is something easier done in software.

John

 

[Luo Yang]

My thoughts about John's suggestions:
1. I agree, but as he said #2 would be a good work around.
2. It would be nice to have it go back even one cards. There are many times I woudl have liked this (due to the button being hit twice accidently, or other reasons). Having more cards would be nice, but going back one would take care of about 80% of the times I want to go back.
3. Perhaps it could have a setting, that it shows a set # of cards until those cards reach a certain rank. Then there could be two ways to handle it, 1. when one card reaches that rank it is replaced with a new one, or 2. it waits until all the cards have reached that rank and then brings in a whole set of new ones.

Rob

 

[mikelove]

Thanks for the feedback.

#1 makes sense (and would be easy to implement), we've tried to tweak the way the button is set up to prevent it but it seems like the problem is at the OS level and may not be fixable without such a delay timer.

#2 has actually been mentioned quite a few times - I still don't like the idea of jamming any more buttons into that interface, and the coding could in some test modes get a little hairy, so it's questionable when this might actually happen.

#3 could be (mostly) achieved by using our Repetition Spacing feature, or by using a session with a limited # of cards and sorting them by the date they were last reviewed - if you play around with the settings you can certainly work out a system where you can review a long list in 25-card batches. But I suppose there would be some additional benefits to letting you create a "review window" or something similar in the list... in general we need to expand on the "workflow" aspects of the system, give you more options to see lists of cards by rank, last review date, etc, and this certainly fits in with that improvement.

 

[craig]

First thanks for releasing an awesome product the flashcard features alone made it worth the purchase. I searched quickly but didn?t see either of these mentioned and just wanted to throw them out there.

1. It has been alluded that a future version of pleco will have voice pronunciation integrated. If possible I?d love to see this taken advantage of in the flashcard feature as well. Particularly have it possible to hear a character/word with the card screen blank, forcing the user to recall how to write the character, as well as the meaning and definition by sound alone. As our class is very fond of dictation having a way to practice that would be very helpful.

2. Also I sometimes find the box to write ones answer in kind of small to write certain characters in. It is always long enough, but sometimes to short. If it is possible to have a user defined space that would be incredible but even just a very small increase in the height of the box would work. I know one can tell if they know it or not without the entire character written out, but it would be a nice touch.

All other things that came to mind I found others had already mentioned before. Again great work on the product and I can?t wait to see what 2.0 holds in store for us.

 

[mikelove]

1. Certainly, a big part of the argument for adding voice pronunciation is the way we can integrate it with flashcards - both like you describe and for more basic tasks like teaching people to hear the difference between Pinyin tones.

2. This is actually already available; just check the "taller" checkbox next to "Show sketch box" in Test Settings and that will significantly increase the size of the character drawing box.

Thanks for the feedback!