Pocket PC Beta 3 Feedback Thread

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
It's out now, so feel free to post comments/bugs/etc here. We think we've pretty well taken care of the slow startup problem from the Beta 3 preview now, so hopefully this will start to feel like release-quality software, but if you do encounter any problems then please let us know about them so that we can get them fixed for 1.0.
 

Eric

秀才
Excellent, much faster load!

Mike

EXCELLENT!

This one loads much more quickly, about 4 secs. It also seems to exit much more quickly.

There is one minor behavior that seems like a bug. When you select the flash card groups that you would like for your session, those card group selections are not kept when you exit the flashcards menus. When you reenter the flash cards menu, all of the card groups are selected instead of the ones you last selected.

Thanks again for the much improved speed!

Eric
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Great! Glad to hear it, hopefully this will let us get away with keeping this file search system in pretty much its current state in 1.0. (though there are some tweaks we can make that might improve the startup speed a little more)

We weren't aware of this flashcard bug, I'm guessing it must have appeared recently when we merged the session/manage screens - should be pretty easy to fix at least. Thanks.
 

sfrrr

状元
Mike--I'm starting to get a little weirdness again. So much for calm.

Sometimes I select the flashcard lists I want to use and nothing happens. This lovely development is getting more frequent and it is not dependent on memory cards present or absent. Do I delete something in the registry again?

Sandra

Edit: also, is there a limit to the number of flashcards one can have? Is there any connection between my problem (above) and the fact that the first fifty or so entries to my user dictionary (of which I have only one!) are invalid or jumbled?
 

huang

Member
setup issues

Just purchased and attempted to install Beta 3 onto my HP Ipaq pocket pc with no luck.

I checked to make sure my SD card had the capacity for installation, but I keep getting errors after the numerous attempts to install it. I have win 5.0, so I understand there may be some bugs, but I can't get this to work at all.

Here is what happened:
1) uninstalled the demo
2) downloaded and ran full version from desktop (ppcfull.exe)
3) downloaded key file and copied onto My Documents folder on the ipaq
4) installation finally finishes but was unsuccessful--"Installation of Pleco Software PlecoDict.CAB was unsuccessful."

I then uninstalled everything, and tried installing with the full version CAB file that I downloaded through the order page. The setup appeared to install sucessfully; but when I proceed to open Plecodict, it gives me another error stating that the dictionary data files cannot be found.

Someone please help..
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Hmm... so the .cab version installed without any error messages, but when you tried to start up PlecoDict it gave you a message about not being able to locate the dictionary data files? Try this: use "File Explorer" to navigate to the \\Storage Card\Program Files directory on your Pocket PC; you should see a "PlecoDict" folder inside of that. Tap-hold on that folder and select "Cut", then move up one level and paste the folder in there (so \\Storage Card\Program Files\PlecoDict becomes \\Storage Card\PlecoDict). Go into that PlecoDict folder and tap on PlecoDict.exe - hopefully that should get the software to start up.

If that works, tap-hold on PlecoDict.exe, select "Copy", navigate to \\Windows\Start Menu\Programs and use the "Paste Shortcut" command to add an icon for the relocated PlecoDict program to your Pocket PC's program launcher.
 

daniu

榜眼
Hi!

I just got my Dell Axim x51V with Mobile 5 and tried to install PlecoCheck. It installed but I could not find the program afterwards.
The demo however installed and was also usable. As long as you can consider the demo usable :)

Is PlecoCheck not supposed to work at the moment? Especially not with Mobile 5?

Another very off-topic quesion: how do I pay PlecoDict? By Credit Card? Which ones will work? I could not find any information concerning this on the webpage.

Thanks
Daniel
 

sfrrr

状元
Since Mike seems to be taking a well-earned vacation, I'll reply with the little bits of info I can remember. When you use PlecoCheck and/or the keyfile that enables the full program, they're supposed to disappear after they're used.

You can't unlock the full version until you've paid. To buy PlecoDict, go to the home page of pleco.com (NOT PlecoForums.com), click on the Store icon and you'll find all the info you need in order to buy a full version. After you buy, you'll receive a keyfile. Put that in your My Documents folder in main memory (if this is a PPC; on Palms, I think you put it where Palm just tells you to put it. The next time you run PD, your full product will unlock itself and notify you of same.

Sandra
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Not on vacation (I took one of those back in October), just not a lot to reply to lately...

PlecoCheck actually stays installed until you uninstall it, so I'm not sure why it would disappear - are you sure that it wasn't buried in Program Files somewhere? If you installed it to internal memory then it would likely show up in \\Program Files\PlecoCheck. We don't know of any issues with PlecoCheck on WM5, so if in fact it won't install on WM5 devices this would be the first we've heard of it.

And yeah, the demo is far from perfect I'll agree... the lack of entries isn't something we're going to be able to fix anytime soon (we'd have to renegotiate something like half a dozen contracts to change that) but we're still considering some options for the handwriting recognizer. One possibility is that we might offer people the option of paying $5 (fully creditable towards a subsequent PlecoDict purchase) to enable the recognizer and paid-version font in the demo version - we'd actually lose money with each of those purchases, but if someone is sufficiently interested in our software to pay $5 for a less-restricted demo, they're probably going to end up buying the software anyway. Or maybe we'll eventually work out a deal to put the recognizer in a free demo, but at this point I'm less-than-entirely-optimistic about that.

sfrrr covered the purchase process exactly - you can place your order at http://www.pleco.com/store/.
 

Eric

秀才
Now I need to double tap to start program

Mike,

I've been using Plecodict some more and the flashcard option is great. I cannot wait to see what happens next with voice and other improvements.

I've uploaded several flashcard files and moved them to the SD card where I have the program.

Somewhere along the way, the program started requiring me to double-tap the icon to start the program. If I single tap, I can see my memory decrease by a few 100k but then the memory goes back to where it was. Like the program tried to start but couldn't. If I double tap, the program starts as normal.

Thanks,
Eric
 

nesca

Member
Hi everybody!

Since I learned quite a bit from the forum as a lurker I felt I wanted to join and share some of my experiences with you all.

I bought PlecoDict about week ago. I installed it on my iPAQ with WM5, localized German version, and have used it for an hour a day or so. The program is fast and feels stable and so far I have only found one small bug. When I change the iPAQ display from portrait to landscape mode the toolbar does not rescale properly. Did anybody else notice this?

Jan
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Eric - I don't think anyone's told us about this bug before. Strange... sounds like there might be something causing it intermittently crash on startup. Have you experienced crashes anywhere else in PlecoDict lately?

nesca - this is a known bug, in fact it's been on our list of things to fix since Beta 1. It keeps getting punted to the next update because we keep running up against our self-imposed deadlines, but it should finally be fixed in the next one.
 

Eric

秀才
Mike

I've had no other crashes. And, this is not intermittent. It happens everytime I try to start the program with a single tap.

I wonder if it has something to do with moving the flashcard database files?

Eirc
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Possible, though I'm not seeing similar symptoms on an X51v here. If some file was left open or locked in some way when PlecoDict exited, that might cause it to crash on every other startup (since during the course of the crashing startup it might conceivably unlock or close the file). Is there any way you could try moving the flashcard files back into main memory and see if that fixes the problem?
 

sfrrr

状元
For what it's worth, the really serious problems I had with plecodict started after I moved my flash cards from SD Card\Program Files\PlecoDict to SD Card\PlecoDict. I lost about half of my flashcards (a real loss for me) but also found a bunch of flashcards that didn't port from my Palm to my Axim. Weird. In any case, I moved PD back into Program Files, repaired and recreated my flashcards and have no major problems since.

Sandra
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
A number of issues I've collected

Hi,

I've noticed that you've implemented some of the fixes and requests I made during Beta 2. Thanks!!!! I've been using Beta 3 daily since it was released, and have found a number of issues left from Beta 2 and some new ones as well. I'm using an HP iPAQ h4150. I've run Beta 3 on the English 2003 OS ROM v1.10 and the Chinese 2003 OS ROM v1.10 and have seen the same problems. I'll get right to it:

* Lockup after powering on the Pocket PC with PlecoDict already loaded - I had hoped this one would go away after Beta 2, but no such luck. There seems to be some issue with the code that deals with Windows power messages or task switching. After powering up, PlecoDict appears to be responsive for a second or less, then hangs. Sometimes it recovers from the hang after 5-10 seconds, but sometimes not. Any input is queued up, then dumped into Pleco after the hang goes away. If the hang is permanent, you can't even kill Pleco - a reset with the stylus is required. Very disruptive...

* Recognizer and Flashcard writing area problem - If you make a mark in the center of the writing area, then pickup the stylus and place it outside of the writing area and move it back into the writing area, you will see a straight line connecting the two marks. This extraneous line can be visually confusing and will occur frequently if you write near the edge of the area and slip outside on accident.

* Using the arrow keys to scroll up and down through the entries does not change the definition on the left to the selected entry on the right. This may have worked in Beta 2, but I don't recall this clearly.

* If you use the magnifier to view a character, then type in another word using an attached keyboard, the listed definition will be partially visible, but the old character will still be hovering above it.

* I've lost all my flashcards in Beta 2 as well as Beta 3. I noticed that other users have this problem, and I also agree that this is unacceptable, as I have put a lot of work into them. This should be high priority fix. I think this happened after a lock-up and subsequent reset. It seems that perhaps Pleco isn't leaving the flashcard data in a valid state for some portion of it's runtime, so that a crash at that time will cause data loss.

* When selecting Chinese text that spans across two lines, then tapping the search-paste button (or whatever it's called), quite often a character or two will be dropped from the selection. I notice that selecting the text backwards seems to work around this problem.

* Some words are not listed in order in the entry table. For instance a two character word might be listed after a three character word starting with the same two characters. I think this might have something to do with the three character entry having a space, or the two character entry being followed by parantheses with an alternate spelling. If I isolate an example I'll post another message.

* Request: Now that I'm using the Chinese OS and am familiar with its input methods, I've realized that it would be nice if PlecoDict could recognize it. A new setting would be nice - one for changing the input method based on the current dictionary language. This would be useful because I have to reset the input methods every time I restart PlecoDict. This should be useful for any OS language.

Thanks a lot for your help with these issues, and thanks for the great product!

Ellis
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Re: A number of issues I've collected

Thank you very much for that wonderfully detailed bug report. I'll respond to this point-by-point:

Lockup after powering on the Pocket PC with PlecoDict already loaded

Have you tried moving your font files to main memory (instead of leaving them on the storage card)? This is recommended in Beta 3 and will be automatic in the next release. Let me know if moving those files doesn't fix this.

This error actually isn't related to Windows power messages, it's related to the file system. Basically, whenever a Pocket PC is powered off there's the potential that Windows CE may decide to invalidate the links to all files on storage cards when the system is powered on again. When that happens, programs are expected to notice it and reopen all of their files. PlecoDict does this (though it's certainly possible there might be a bug in that code), but Windows CE's font system does not, so if you're accessing a font from a storage card, that can create all sorts of errors when you power the system on after leaving it off for a while.

Recognizer and Flashcard writing area problem

Thanks for pointing that out, looks like there's a bug in the code that continues a line after your stylus has briefly left the recognizer area.

Using the arrow keys to scroll up and down through the entries does not change the definition on the left to the selected entry on the right

This is an odd one - are you sure it doesn't do it after you finish your scrolling? Are you running any utilities or other programs that might interfere with key input even when they're not running (e.g. an application launcher that uses hardware button combinations?)

What it's supposed to do is scroll through the lines rapidly while you hold down the arrow button but then bring up the correct entry as soon as you let go - we don't update the entry every time for performance reasons. Try enabling the "Limit scroll rate" option in Preferences and that should take care of this, since with that option enabled it updates the definition along with the list.

If you use the magnifier to view a character, then type in another word using an attached keyboard, the listed definition will be partially visible, but the old character will still be hovering above it.

We've now fixed this in our latest build, but thanks for the bug report nonetheless.

I've lost all my flashcards in Beta 2 as well as Beta 3.

I completely agree with you that this is unacceptable. It looks like it has something to do with Windows' file caching system, so we're going through and forcing it to write the updated data to disk every time there's a major change. (in general it's better not to do that, since it can slow things down and drain the battery, but if you keep your flashcards in main memory the impact should be minimal, and if not it's still better than losing your data)

When selecting Chinese text that spans across two lines, then tapping the search-paste button (or whatever it's called), quite often a character or two will be dropped from the selection.

This is actually caused by a workaround for another bug, namely that Chinese characters don't word wrap correctly (causing them to leak off the edge of the form and creating a messy horizontal scrollbar) in HTML-based text controls like the one we use to draw dictionary definitions. This bug appears to have been fixed in Windows Mobile 5 (so we can disable the workaround on that), but on WM2003, unless we can find another workaround we feel this bug is preferable to having characters trail off the page.

Some words are not listed in order in the entry table.

This is actually present on Palm as well (the problem is in the system we use to sort the databases) - you're correct that it relates to the entry having extra characters in parentheses. Changing this would be rather disruptive, since it would require us to alter the database files and that would invalidate everyone's flashcards (as their references to particular line #s in the dictionary would no longer be accurate). We're eventually planning to add a facility to migrate flashcards from one version of a database to another, but that's not going to happen for a while.

Request: Now that I'm using the Chinese OS and am familiar with its input methods, I've realized that it would be nice if PlecoDict could recognize it.

Thanks for that suggestion. It's too late to add anything new in 1.0, but we'll certainly keep it in mind for a future update.

Thanks again for the very helpful feedback,

Michael Love
Pleco Software
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Forgot to respond to sfrrr's post - it's strange that changing the storage directory would affect the flashcards, there's not really any good reason why that would happen unless you moved the files while PlecoDict was still running (which I don't even think is possible, since Windows would give you an error message if you tried). You're sure that your SD card works reliably, right? A faulty bit of flash memory could certainly explain this. But as far as PlecoDict's database system is concerned, there's zero difference between SD Card\Program Files\PlecoDict and SD Card\PlecoDict. Though you really would be better off if you kept your files in main memory (particularly in 1.0 after we implement the fix for the file caching bug).
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Re: A number of issues I've collected

Thanks for the quick response!

Regarding the hang: When using the English OS, I moved the fonts first thing, and I still saw this hang. On the Chinese OS I just deleted the font, as it's already installed with the OS.

As for the scrolling issue, I'll try the change you mentioned. I'm using the micro thumb keyboard if that makes any difference. I'm not using any application launchers, and Pleco is receiving the arrow key messages, because it is moving the select cursor from enry to entry. It's just the definition that isn't being updated.

Regards,
Ellis

mikelove said:
Thank you very much for that wonderfully detailed bug report. I'll respond to this point-by-point:

Lockup after powering on the Pocket PC with PlecoDict already loaded

Have you tried moving your font files to main memory (instead of leaving them on the storage card)? This is recommended in Beta 3 and will be automatic in the next release. Let me know if moving those files doesn't fix this.

This error actually isn't related to Windows power messages, it's related to the file system. Basically, whenever a Pocket PC is powered off there's the potential that Windows CE may decide to invalidate the links to all files on storage cards when the system is powered on again. When that happens, programs are expected to notice it and reopen all of their files. PlecoDict does this (though it's certainly possible there might be a bug in that code), but Windows CE's font system does not, so if you're accessing a font from a storage card, that can create all sorts of errors when you power the system on after leaving it off for a while.

Using the arrow keys to scroll up and down through the entries does not change the definition on the left to the selected entry on the right

This is an odd one - are you sure it doesn't do it after you finish your scrolling? Are you running any utilities or other programs that might interfere with key input even when they're not running (e.g. an application launcher that uses hardware button combinations?)

What it's supposed to do is scroll through the lines rapidly while you hold down the arrow button but then bring up the correct entry as soon as you let go - we don't update the entry every time for performance reasons. Try enabling the "Limit scroll rate" option in Preferences and that should take care of this, since with that option enabled it updates the definition along with the list.

Michael Love
Pleco Software
 

Eric

秀才
mikelove said:
Possible, though I'm not seeing similar symptoms on an X51v here. If some file was left open or locked in some way when PlecoDict exited, that might cause it to crash on every other startup (since during the course of the crashing startup it might conceivably unlock or close the file). Is there any way you could try moving the flashcard files back into main memory and see if that fixes the problem?

Mike,

Sorry for the late reply on this.

I just found that I had copied a flash card.peb file from My Documents to the directory with plecodict.exe on my SD CARD. Somehow, that file later got orphaned. By that I mean that further imports of flash cards were not reflected in that file, but in the other pleco files. I judged this by renaming the file and then opening plecodict. After this was done, it opened with only 1 tap and not a double tap.

Let me know if I can provide more specific data. The file that was duplicated in the two placed was "PlecoDict Flashcards.peb". I'm not sure how it got duplicated, but I bet moving the file from main memory to the SD CARD had something to do with it.

I am still getting a few additional .peb files put in main memory even though I tried to move them to the SD CARD.

SD CARD
PlecoDict Flashcards--1079161819.peb
PlecoDict User DB C-E--1079161821.peb
PlecoDict User DB C-E.peb

Main Memory (My Documents)
PlecoDict Flashcards.peb
PlecoDict User DB C-E--1077872939.peb
PlecoDict User DB C-E--1078169562.peb
PlecoDict User DB C-E--1078169584.peb
PlecoDict User DB C-E.peb

All of these files have the modified date current as of the last usage. So, the program seems to be updating all the files.

Thanks,
Eric
 
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