Pleco for Mac Update?

[silversaturn]

I love this product and have been using it since I first began my Chinese learning journey years ago. Every once in a while, I have come back to these forums to see if there is an update on the mac version of Pleco. I would love to know if I've missed something, or if this is still being planned!

Best!

 

[mikelove]

Still in the works, yes - nothing new to share though.

 

[basil]

will this be something where I can update my flashcards on the mac and they'll update on my phone?

 

[mikelove]

Not immediately but it's part of our plans, yes.

 

[bokane]

Always glad to hear it; my copy of Wenlin is getting pretty long in the tooth

 

[Shun]

Regarding Wenlin, one thing I like about it very much is the ability to look up different definitions all at once and "stack" them for a simultaneous view. Might the future Mac version include tabs for definitions of different words, or perhaps even stacked definitions? For example, currently in Pleco it isn't easy to see the definitions for 狱丁 and 监狱 on the screen at the same time, like here:

Multiple definitions in different columns might work, too.

Thanks! If the Mac version features are still under wraps, I would understand.

Regards,

Shun

 

[mikelove]

I have nothing against Wenlin's UI, but I think this would be a bit of an awkward fit for Pleco because our app is built around a search box rather than a text window; it seems like it would be more natural to just enter both words in the search box like this:

But a tab option for the definition screen is certainly possible - indeed it kind of makes sense since the space for them is awkwardly wide otherwise; probably not in the initial Mac app though since I expect people would rather have a less Mac-optimized version of that out sooner.

 

[Shun]

That sounds wonderful, thanks! It would just be great to have a way to see multiple full definitions at once. So I'm sure you mean a column (or windowed) layout for a future Mac version (after the first Mac release).

 

[kasim]

Do you have a rough estimate when the first Mac version release should be?

 

[mikelove]

No - given that beta feedback on 4.0 iOS seems to have petered out, our plan is to use the Mac version as an opportunity to get a second big round of testing once we've finished our backlog of changes and are almost ready to release the finished version of 4.0 on iOS, but we don't know when that will be.

 

[Fernando]

I hate to be the one mentioning potentially bad news, but doesn't the just-announced iPhone Mirroring feature obviate the need for a dedicated Mac Pleco app for about 90% of people?

 

[mikelove]

Have to see how it works in practice - I'm not going to mind all that much of everybody says 'never mind' on Mac, less work for me. (I was never envisioning it as a particularly big revenue driver)

 

[Fernando]

I guess what still needs to be seen is whether it will have access to the Mac's camera for things like OCR. Other than that it looks like you can fully interact with the apps, audio and all, and even transfer files.

I'll be honest, it does the trick for me. I don't mind the weird phone-shaped window.

 

[Shun]

I think a real, windowed Mac version would have the following advantages for me:

• I don't need to have an iPhone/iPad nearby. I don't need to have my Wi-Fi on all the time.
• I have a screen that's about 3-5x larger.
• I can have multiple windows with multiple search results open.
• I can access all features quickly through keyboard shortcuts. (Perhaps this could also be achieved with iPhone Mirroring, or with a Bluetooth keyboard attached to the iPhone/iPad.)
• Writing notes and additions to flashcards, for example, would probably also be quicker and easier. (no need to navigate through an interface that was made for touch)
• One disadvantage: The need for a sync service to the cloud would get even more pressing.

For the developer/Mike, the advantage would be the relative ease of porting the iOS code to Mac. (low effort/high potential reward)

Personally, I would be paying top dollar for a desktop version. I hope that isn't just 10% of all users.

 

[Fernando]

I can have multiple windows with multiple search results open.

I remember I once asked Mike about the possibility of multiple Pleco instances in the iPad app. I was particularly interested in multiple instances of the reader. That would also be an obvious advantage of a dedicated desktop app. But if I remember well there was some issue preventing multiple instances (something about licenses? Too lazy to search it now...)

Anyhow, this phone mirroring thing can be achieved on the linux side with scrcpy with an android phone or with waydroid with no phone at all, though a lot jankier... So I guess you're right, since we're talking about the Apple side of things, it makes sense to pay for neatness.

 

[mikelove]

But if I remember well there was some issue preventing multiple instances (something about licenses? Too lazy to search it now...)

It's not a licensing issue, just a lot of work to make the app work that way - there are a bunch of awkward restrictions around data storage e.g. which we don't really have any other good reason to deal with. Multi-window support on macOS is somewhat easier, from what I can tell.

Personally, I would be paying top dollar for a desktop version. I hope that isn't just 10% of all users.

Yes, I still think a desktop app *that behaves like a desktop app* is worth it, if this does anything it's mostly just raising the bar for the amount of macOS optimization I need to do to make a Mac app viable.

 

[Shun]

@Fernando Yeah, multiple instances of the Reader (and Web Reader) would be wonderful. I also agree on the neatness part, since neatness equals reliability and fitness for daily use.

@mikelove I believe it could also be a gradual process, the Mac version wouldn't have to feel all that desktop-optimized from the start. There are of course a lot of careful considerations to be made, but I would risk it and go for it, with the clear intention of developing it and improving it further later.

All that would really be necessary for me would be resizable windows that look almost like on an iPhone without the toolbar at the bottom. There could be a kind of Window menu from which one could start (almost) any number of Dictionary or (Web) Reader instances.

 

[Fernando]

since neatness equals reliability and fitness for daily use.

I don't know man, I can only speak about the experience I have with waydroid on Ubuntu. I've been using it for months now, mostly for the reader function. It is janky in a myriad ways. For instance, it doesn't share the clipboard, so copy and paste doesn't work, which is a great minus just for simply doing dictionary searches. Resizing the window also requires resizing your entire "phone" and needs to be done through terminal commands, and the cursor doesn't flow freely between your "phone" and your main UI either, so you get that janky trapped cursor typical of VMs. However, it hasn't crashed on me even once. So it isn't neat, but it (has been) reliable. Still, compared to that, Apple's new solution is clearly superior.

But I guess I got so tired of Apple's obvious shenanigans, such as charging an arm and a leg for an extra 8 gb of ram or 250 gb of storage and pushing hard for subscriptions/in-app purchases of just about any questionable thing, that I got inured to all the wacko-ness in trying to find alternatives in linux. Having said that, base model macbooks are not all that expensive for what they are, and if there is a nice workflow I could set up on mac, with a dedicated pleco app and all, I would consider it again. That would be a case, of course, of developers like Mike creating value for Apple, and honestly I don't think they've been doing that much to deserve it. I'll admit I may not be a member of a 90% crowd, but whatever percentage it is, it is growing.

 

[Shun]

Yeah, I see Apple's philosophy as shielding users from any unnecessary distractions and technological complexity, including device specs. For those like you, who understand the technology behind it, this is surely frustrating. But you have to give Apple that they have a very high usability because of it. Funny how this has changed from the 90s, when Apple devices were seen as expensive "toys". Now, most people say they can focus on their work best.

Allow me to post this defining YouTube video regarding Apple's pricing and focus on quality:

I just view the $200 premium on 8 GB more RAM or 256GB more SSD as the "tech-free" perception of added usefulness of a device, which seems about right to me. In exchange for that, the starting price is rather low.

Having said that, I look forward to the competition from Qualcomm ARM PCs, which of course should be good for bringing down prices.

 

[Fernando]

The problem is that the Apple of 2007 no longer exists. The philosophy at the top changed (though they'll deny it), and the market has also changed enormously. Jobs was a tough and demanding leader focused on getting things done the right way, Cook is an uninspiring consensus guy who has only succeeded in iterating a few old successful formulas. Back then the only Apple product with mass appeal was the iPod, and everything else was a battlefront. Now the company's revenue is driven overwhelmingly by their smartphone, a product that is basically a necessity for modern life, and the services linked to it. That's why you open the app store today and find tons of gambling apps and garbage jackpot games that prey on people's anxiety. I don't like to be the guy who says 'Jobs would never do this', but I do ask myself if that would fly under his leadership.

As for the 8GB ram thing, just ask yourself what would happen if they offered 16Gb as base on their M(x) products? Those processors are indeed so good that if they were always paired with a decent amount of RAM (arguably the amount necessary for them to shine) the vast majority of people would not need to purchase another device for perhaps a full decade.