October 1st

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stephanhodges

状元
Actually, I wasn't suggesting that volunteers write everything from scratch, but that you provide the core, and the selected people could be "editors" as it were.

See http://www.virtualmin.com/documentation for an example. They (company) wrote all the initial documentation using Dokuwiki. Now, users are allowed to add or edit items, etc.

It's very easy to get change notifications, so for example, when I added a section there on custom user email notifications, they immediately knew about it, and filled in some of the blanks in what I knew about the topic, etc. (This actually happened over about a week+ span).

I think it's possible to generate a independent downloadable document from the wiki too. I'm not sure if Dokuwiki can do that but I think TWiki can (or one of the others). That would give you both worlds.

So, definitely, I expect the authoritative voice in the documentation would be Pleco.

In fact, you don't have to allow open user editing to make the wiki useful since it would be an online up to date version of the manual anyways. I was trying to save you some time.
 
A

Aunty

举人
I love the idea of a wiki. I've been a wiki enthusiast, running TWiki systems, for many years. We definitely must have one.

But for the plain standard documentation that comes with purchase, no. When I fork out money for a piece of software, something I've only done twice in the past decade, I want the pristine official manual from the place that took my $100, thank you.

And I want the wiki too!
 
H

hairyleprechaun

状元
I agree with Aunty. Nothing beats going through the manual to find out about/how to use complex features found in high quality software.

By the way Mike, have you had any luck creating some additional Pocket PC preview photos of 2.0 for all of us Pocket PC users out there?

Cheers!

Darrol
 
S

stephanhodges

状元
Do you know of any ways to generate CHM (compiled help) and or PDF files directly from a wiki? Obviously something that can generate a finished manual from a wiki would eliminate steps and save time.

I agree to have a local copy of documentation, but I don't care what form its in, as long as it doesn't take up too much space.
 
S

Sarevok

进士
Maybe a bit off-topic but...

What is going to happen with flashcards scores when imported to 2.0? I understand the scoring system will be somewhat different, but does it mean the scores will be lost completely? I just want to know whether to begin with my repetition spacing flashcard sessions now, or wait for the "Oktoberfest"? After my last crash of flashcards database I had a little break, but I thought I should start again so I don't fall out of practice... so should I start my sessions seriously or just wait till the end of the month, because I would have to start again by then anyways?
 
B

bagz007

Member
For those of us who are not yet Pleco users but are waiting for the arrival of the new dictionaries, does this mean I'll be able to buy a beta of the "linguist package" Oct. 1st? If not, when? Thanks!
 
G

goulniky

榜眼
will the beta be able to run alongside v1 on the same device or will we need to make a choice?

I still haven't upgraded WM on my HTC so, if there is a choice, do you advise to run Pleco 2 under WM5 or WM6?

By then I will no longer have my UX (which makes me the keeper of a forever useless Pleco license for Palm)
 
mikelove

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Sarevok - the 2.0 converter utility will convert card ranks to scores in the new system, so the repetition spacing info should stay pretty much intact. Particularly since the new Manage Cards screen will let you list all cards with a specific score (or range of scores) and batch alter them to a different score (or multiply their scores by a specified factor).

We're not planning to release that utility until the finished version of 2.0 comes out, though, partly because we'd rather not sacrifice work on the main program to work on the converter but mostly because we want to discourage people from moving their flashcards over to the new version until it's been through a few betas and we can be confident that it's not too likely to destroy people's flashcards. (at least not any more than the current version :) So you have several months to go before you'd really want to move your flashcards over to 2.0.

Text import will be supported in the beta, though, so if anyone feels like taking the risk and doesn't mind losing their flashcard statistics you should be able to get your flashcards into 2.0 that way.

bagz007 - yes, we are planning to make the Linguist package available with the first beta release. (and retire the current Complete version, though you'll be able to get the same thing for the same price by buying the Professional version and checking a box to add on the Oxford dictionary for an extra $20)

goulniky - yes, the two versions should be able to coexist quite happily, the only thing we're a little uncertain on is whether or not the handwriting recognizer library on Pocket PC can remain stable if loaded by two different programs at once, but since it's a .dll and .dlls are specifically designed to do that it should be OK.
 
J

jugdish

秀才
Installing v1 before v2?

Dear Mike,
I've just bought a second hand Treo 650 from a place they call "Computer City" here in my city.
I'm going to install v1 on it this week because I can't wait for v2 since classes are starting up. I think I'm good on switching everything from my Tungsten E2, but I have a question regarding all the files of v1: Is there a way for me to install things that will keep clutter on my Treo to a minimum? That is, when I install 2.0 in October, I'm hoping that I won't have lots of Pleco files I won't need that might me hard to find. So now is there anything I should do differently than the normal instructions?
Thanks in advance if you get time to reply,
David
 
mikelove

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Pretty much the same instructions apply; the Pleco 1.0 data files are all lumped underneath the same creator ID, so deleting PlecoDict in the Palm OS "Delete" screen should remove all of those files. Though you may want to keep 1.0 installed along with 2.0, at least until Beta 2 or 3 is out and things are stable/well-tested enough to make it really usable.
 
H

hairyleprechaun

状元
Hey Mike,

I have a question for you. I don't seem to have seen it anywhere else on the forums though it is quite possible I missed it. You have said that we will be able to buy the additional/new dictionaries with the release of PlecoDict 2.0 Beta 1. My question is, after buying the new dictionaries, would I be able to use them with my current PlecoDict product (in the event that the PlecoDict 2.0 Beta 1 is too buggy, or that I still want to use the flashcard and other features in the current PlecoDict software until the bugs are ironed out of PlecoDict 2.0 and all of the features are installed)?

Darrol
 
mikelove

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Unfortunately, they'll only be usable in 2.0; if we had a way to release them for the older version, we would have done it months ago to reduce the amount of 2.0-related nagging we were getting :)
 
J

johnh113

榜眼
Re:

mikelove said:
Sarevok - the 2.0 converter utility

We're not planning to release that utility until the finished version of 2.0 comes out, though, partly because we'd rather not sacrifice work on the main program to work on the converter but mostly because we want to discourage people from moving their flashcards over to the new version until it's been through a few betas and we can be confident that it's not too likely to destroy people's flashcards. (at least not any more than the current version :) So you have several months to go before you'd really want to move your flashcards over to 2.0.


Dear Mike,

I spend about 99% of my time in Pleco using the flashcards. I agree you shouldn't sacrifice work on the main program to work on the converter. That said, I think you should release the converter as soon after the Beta as possible, with the caveat that people should save their flashcards frequently so as not to have them destroyed. I would love to start using the new audio feature while I'm reviewing my flashcards, and I would love to sync my existing flashcards with the new Chinese-to-Chinese dictionary rather than the Chinese-English dictionaries. But I don't want to start new flashcard lists for the Beta as I have thousands of flashcards and years of history already built up with my existing flashcards.

John
Click to expand...
 
mikelove

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Well maybe in one of the later beta releases, but part of the problem with doing it for Beta 1 is that we're not completely settled on the flashcard database schema yet; we may still make a number of tweaks between the first beta and the finished version, and not only would this force us to do extra work updating the converter for each database change, it would also break compatibility with flashcards from earlier betas. So your imported cards would be useless and you'd have to import them all over again. We're trying to set up the database to handle desktop synchronization even though our software won't actually do that until 2.1 comes out, so that's part of the reason for the format uncertainty.
 
K

kudra

秀才
the cream of the nerdy palm users (and I use the term with the utmost respect) buying a calendar and a pen. :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
mikelove

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
I actually do carry around a pen and notebook instead of a PDA; when you spend as much time fighting with Palm OS and Windows Mobile as I do it's reassuring to be taking notes on something that doesn't crash, plus it's a lot easier to sketch out some new user interface / design idea on actual paper than it is on even a high-resolution PDA screen.

Still looking good for 10/1, though things aren't quite as stable as I'd like in some places and there will likely be a couple of Annoying Beta Messages in place of a few (mostly minor) features that aren't quite working yet. The dictionaries are now all converted, the Standard Dictionary looks great and the 21st Century one looks not-quite-as-great because we still haven't added a lot of the full-width punctuation marks to our Palm OS font files. (but we probably will get around to that by 10/1) Traditional characters are not yet supported in the two new dictionaries, unfortunately, since we still haven't gotten around to adding the necessary coding to the data files.

Incidentally, there's probably going to be an expiration date on the beta, maybe 12/31 or 1/31 or something like that; the last time we went through one of these we had people e-mailing us with beta tech support issues a year after the product was released, and of course not telling us they were using the beta version, so it's helpful to know that after a particular date there's no longer anyone out there using the beta.

Also, there is in fact not going to be an instruction manual for the beta, just a quick readme file explaining the major new features and how they work (along with a few of the more befuddling preferences settings). And the beta forum will be viewable by forum members only, and will be the only place to get instructions on how to download / install / unlock / purchase the beta; we're going to be a lot more strict about our "no tech support for beta versions" policy this time around, and we want to encourage everyone to use the forums both to report bugs and get help with problems.
 
I

ipsi

状元
Sounds good to me. I'm really looking forward to being able to show this off. :D

I'm also with you on sketching out a new UI. There's no way I'd do that even on a computer. Sketching is generally best done by hand :).

Unless you have a sweet Wacom tablet or something :).

When you add the full-width puncation, does that mean it will be usable in the Headwords as well? I very much prefer Chinese Characters to have full-width punctuation, and English to have half-width.

I'd recommend making the Beta duration a bit longer than you need to, just in case there are delays to the next beta or the final product.

Also, I take it Traditional Characters will appear in the Dictionaries once the final product is out? It's not important to me, overly much, but I'm sure it is to some people (and if I'm reading newspapers, they're typically in Traditional...). I assume there's stroke-order animations for all supported characters, simplified and traditional? I'd be surprised if that wasn't the case, but just felt as though I should ask :).
 
H

hairyleprechaun

状元
Hello Mike,

Is the Pocket PC version coming along about as fast as the Palm version of 2.0 Beta? I have always been assuming that they will be coming out at the same time. Is that still the case?
 
mikelove

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Yes, they're pretty comparable featurewise now; there are a few areas where the Palm version is a bit more stable, and a few where the Pocket PC version is more stable, but it's pretty even all-in-all. Flashcards ironically are now more stable on PPC, since the SQLite database engine has an official Windows version but we had to port it to Palm OS ourselves.

We're actually going to be putting a little more effort into optimization/debugging on Pocket PC than on Palm OS during the final push next week, since the situation with Windows Mobile 6 is getting increasingly problematic; you're still not necessarily going to want to make Beta 1 your main dictionary, but hopefully by the time Beta 2 comes out (tentatively on October 14th, we're going to be very aggressive about pushing out new betas this time around) it'll be at a point where you can use it every day without too much aggravation.
 
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