iPhone SDK

[mangochutney]

Fair enough Mike!

That sounds really good, and I'm happy to see that you already have sketched out an iPhone interface
I'm looking forward to it, and Pleco 2.0
Until then I'll just have to remember:

Patience is a virtue.

 

[garysaville]

Re: iPhone SDK is out

I think this is the mobile platform of the future.

Hopefully not. There is a lot to be said against MS but Apple is way more greedy. The only thing that I can see in Apples products is design and marketing. Their products are so much overpriced that I can only hope that some people stay sensible ...

I don't want to get into a Mac PC battle on this forum but the zealot in me just can't control itself.
Here in Taipei an iPod touch (8gig) is selling for the same price as a PalmTX with with a couple megs on board. What other portable device out there comes close to the Touch in terms of processing power and storage? Have you ever held a Touch? They are tiny. The navigation is a breeze. and they make a small form factor very practical with the multi-touch interface and quick ability to zoom in and out to crystal clear text. Reading traditional fonts on Palms or Pocket-PC sucks. It's pixelated and ugly.
I'll stop now.

 

[gato]

Demo of a game on the iPhone. I'm impressed.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=y16ZvXoBuvM&feature=related
iPhone SDK Demo - Super Monkey Ball

 

[mangochutney]

Re: iPhone SDK is out

I think this is the mobile platform of the future.

Hopefully not. There is a lot to be said against MS but Apple is way more greedy. The only thing that I can see in Apples products is design and marketing. Their products are so much overpriced that I can only hope that some people stay sensible ...

I don't want to get into a Mac PC battle on this forum but the zealot in me just can't control itself.
Here in Taipei an iPod touch (8gig) is selling for the same price as a PalmTX with with a couple megs on board. What other portable device out there comes close to the Touch in terms of processing power and storage? Have you ever held a Touch? They are tiny. The navigation is a breeze. and they make a small form factor very practical with the multi-touch interface and quick ability to zoom in and out to crystal clear text. Reading traditional fonts on Palms or Pocket-PC sucks. It's pixelated and ugly.
I'll stop now.

You're right, we shouldn't fight in front of the children

@daniu
We should ask Mike if we're allowed to open a nice and cosy flamewar-thread.
Then I'll explain to you why Apple can get away with making so much more money than all the other companies for something you think is not even worth half the price of an EEE PC.

But as I said, only in a separate thread.
This one has to stay on focus :!:

 

[Jim]

Mike, what about selling the Plecodict engine using the Apple Store and selling the dictionaries separately on Plecodict's web site? The cost of and commission to Apple on just the Plecodict engine could be quite low and your major revenue and almost all your profit would be on the dictionaries.

 

[mikelove]

We were discussing that a little earlier in the thread - it doesn't seem like Apple would allow this, unfortunately. Otherwise, there'd be nothing to stop someone from putting a glorified demo version of their app / game / whatever in Apple's store, charging $5 for it and then selling most of the product's functionality through an "upgrade" like that. Or, for that matter, putting an actual demo version in the store as freeware and charging people separately to unlock the full version. At which point they might as well stop tying software distribution to the store at all.

And if you two feel like having a flamewar feel free to do so via the site's handy PM function; that way you don't have to bug the rest of us with it.

I just ordered Pleco a Mac Pro, by the way - you can all read into that whatever you like

 

[mikelove]

Just re-read the iPhone SDK agreement, and actually it looks like they do specifically forbid this sort of upgrade. (can't quote the passage here since the SDK license agreement itself is technically confidential, but if you register for Apple's developer site you can download and view it there) I don't imagine they'd have a problem with free dictionaries (and if they did, we could just include them all in the program bundle with an option to delete them later) but it seems unlikely they'd let us sell add-ons unless they got a cut.

 

[ipsi]

Fun. I'm not too surprised, to be honest.

Hey, no editing. I was about to comment on that line . Sounds like it would be ok to sell upgrades through the store, but I'm not sure how you'd get people their keyfile if you sold upgrades outside their store... They're basically going to make it as hard as possible to sell applications any other way.

 

[mangochutney]

And if you two feel like having a flamewar feel free to do so via the site's handy PM function; that way you don't have to bug the rest of us with it.

Ok, let's do this :wink:

I just ordered Pleco a Mac Pro, by the way - you can all read into that whatever you like

Umm...
Plecodict, FTW!
No, seriously.

They're basically going to make it as hard as possible to sell applications any other way.

Or, for that matter, putting an actual demo version in the store as freeware and charging people separately to unlock the full version. At which point they might as well stop tying software distribution to the store at all.

As much as this annoys me, and everybody else here on the forum, I have to admit; it makes sense.
Not just because the profits that Apple would loose, rather because of platform stability.
Sorry for repeating Jobs' arguments, but I watched the SDK-keynote yesterday and based on what I've seen during the presentation and the things I've read in other forums (concerning the specs of the SDK),
that'll probably be the only way to make sure no Malware or badly written apps come in this way.

I really would like to help you guys in some way, but I'm no developer (although I have to admit that I'm tempted 8) ).
I think some discussion with Apple could clear up a few problems and make things easier for you.

For example an interface to edit flashcard-lists on the Mac/PC. Or another possibility would be an accompaining part of your website.
Both devices have internet-access, why not build a dedicated site (as a part of Pleco.com) and integrate an interface for people to exchange flashcard-lists, dictionary-additions and other stuff related to the programm.
It would be platform independent!
Yeah, I know, and potentially problematic. Apple will allow apps to make use of the APIs needed to connect to the internet, but probably won't allow heavy interaction with certain parts of the filesystem where the apps are stored.

But some kind of free dictionary editor/flashcard editor - as a separate application - could do the trick.
Make it a free add-on that can only edit certain parts of the filesystem that are used to store user-preferences.
You can do this on the Mac, so you should be able to do it with the iPhone OS, too.

PlecoDict on the iPhone/iPod Touch would be awesome!
Even if someone gets in first, there is no Dictionary this sophisticated.

 

[ipsi]

Unless Apple plans to check every bit of software that would go on the store before allowing people to buy/download it, it won't stop malware entirely, and it sure as hell won't stop badly written software. Sure, it'll make malware very uncommon (who'd pay US$100 unless they could be quite sure of getting it back?), and it'll mean that distribution can be stopped quite quickly, but if someone's really, truely dedicated to releasing some malware, then it'll happen.

That, or they'll do their best to release it as someone else, costing them nothing.

Mike's already mentioned elsewhere that he's interested, theoretically, in doing a web-based version of PlecoDict, and ideas like you've suggested would be almost certain to be included.

I don't really see a need for a seperate flashcard editor on the iPhone. What would that achieve that PlecoDict itself couldn't?

 

[mangochutney]

I don't really see a need for a seperate flashcard editor on the iPhone. What would that achieve that PlecoDict itself couldn't?

You're right.
I was thinking along the lines of Apple not allowing an app, that can be upgraded (to a certain extend) through another gateway.
Maybe a separate app, that would be meant solely for user-interaction would be "easier to justify".
(But here lies my error. What would stop someone from selling a dict-upgrade on such a site and circumvent the AppStore.)

Still, a web-interface would make sense.

 

[coljac]

I was just browsing eBay for a cheap palm to run Pleco on - I moved over to the iPhone and sold my Treo, but dearly miss Pleco. I can't wait for an iPhone version.

As long as His Steveness is in charge, Apple will be control freaks about the apps and their deployment model. Nevertheless, it's a no-brainer for Mike to move ahead with this project - Apple are going to be selling a lot more iPhones, whereas I wouldn't be buying stock in Palm right now. For better or worse Apple are probably going to get a huge share of the market (probably for better, as far as user experience goes).

I haven't read the terms and conditions yet, do they exclude the possibility of selling Pleco Basic and Pleco Complete (for instance) as separate products on iTunes?

By the way you'll love the Mac Pro - I do all my development on mine, including Windows development. It's a great machine for that sort of work, OS X is a great OS for geeks with a unix shell so handy. (c.f. "Terminate batch job Y/N?")

 

[mikelove]

The terms aren't clear on that, actually, we're still waiting for more info on how exactly product listings in App Store will work before we can even start thinking about how the bundles might look. And thanks, I actually had to cancel that Mac Pro order when I realized there wouldn't be anyone around to sign for it the day it was scheduled to arrive but I'll be putting in another one shortly.

 

[mangochutney]

And thanks, I actually had to cancel that Mac Pro order when I realized there wouldn't be anyone around to sign for it the day it was scheduled to arrive but I'll be putting in another one shortly.

That was something I checked before I ordered my MacBookPro today.
There HAS to be someone at home when it arrives. :mrgreen:

 

[craig]

I'm really looking forward to the possibility of a pleco iphone (around the same time the 3G iphones are coming out would be ideal). I was curious if you companies could distribute the demo products with a base price of 0$ then sell unlock keys on their own for whatever price. If so that would seem to be a way around the 30% fee model.

 

[mikelove]

Not possible, unfortunately, Apple pretty clearly forbids that - it's sell through them or don't sell at all.

 

[johan]

I daydream about running pleco on an iphone every day. Everything in one device!

-Webb browser
-maps
-dictionary
-reading pdf easily
-phone
-syncing with my mac easily

and all running on the most stable OS ever! I would be able to throw my constantly crashing pocket pc away.

但是现在只是。。。同一个世界。。。同一个梦想！

By the way I have been using pleco around one and half a year and couldn't live without it.

 

[hairyleprechaun]

I agree with you completely . . . almost. If the iPone only had REAL GPS capabilities, could access the 3G network, had a stylus (for when you want it, like making it quicker to type the letters on the crammed keyboard which only pops up in landscape mode while using Safari, but the rest of the time is stuck in portrait mode which is just too small to hit most of the letters accurately in most words), a removable mini SDHC memory card to be able to boost the memory capabilities, and a removable SIM card so that the average consumer can change cell phone service providers at will so that they don’t have to be forced to put up with AT&T’s notoriously bad customer service because of wanting to own an iPhone , then I would be dying for an iPhone version of Plecodict as well.
As it stands, I too would like to see an iPhone version of Plecodict, and its availability would be a big factor in whether or not I buy an iPhone, but I am not sure that I want to pay a higher price for an iPhone version of Plecodict, that might have to be stripped of some features, or not be able to have new dictionaries added to, when Pleco could be ported to Symbian or to Java and not have the drawbacks that it might potentially face with the iPhone platform.

 

[jeanv]

Very excited about pleco coming to the iPhone and touch! Maybe you could release the beta via Installer. Im guessing the majority of people who are desperate for iPleco have jailbroken their iphone/touch anyway. Jailbreaking is so easy now, it only takes a few clicks of the mouse. Also I'm willing to bet that jailbreaking will still be around in a big way even after the official Apps Store launches.

 

[mikelove]

The odds of a Pleco port to Symbian are increasingly slim - I've been carrying around a P1i and an E61 recently and find the OS in both to be perplexing and poorly-designed; takes far far more steps to do a simple thing like set up a WiFi connection in Symbian than it does in Palm, WM, or iPhone. Throw in the Xperia X1 and N810 as signs that both Sony Ericsson and Nokia are contemplating a transition to a different OS and it's really hard to justify a Symbian port right now. If Symbian's market share proves durable even with the Android/iPhone/ALP/etc factors we might think about it then, but we'd be crazy to do it now.

A Java version is a possibility, though I'm still holding out hope that Google decides to add native development support to Android in order to compete with Apple - it's already possible in development versions of Android, there's just no commitment from Google to making sure that it works on shipping devices too.

As far as jailbreaking, the main question for us is how effectively Apple will be able to prevent it - if it remains as easy / tacitly allowed as it is now then we'd be crazy to sell through AppStore at all, getting in that catalog certainly isn't worth paying 30% given how much our product costs and how specific a market it caters to. And installing software on a device with 4+ GB of built-in memory would be a piece of cake compared to the obscene complexity/bugginess of Palm/PPC installs; we could even build a jailbreak right into the Pleco installer, I imagine. But if Apple's really going to try to stop jailbreaking in the new firmware then we probably do need to limit this to an official version in order to avoid the risk of being banned from AppStore later on.