Does PlecoDict/PPC have voice?

davean

Member
Hello. I've just started learning Chinese and am considering buying PlecoDict to help. It seemes quite expensive but I'd probably have to buy 4 or 5 other apps to match its ability. One of the other dictionaries, HH Talking Chinese-English, has real voice pronounciation (read by a native speaker). This is very useful! Just wondered if PlecoDict/PPC has this or if it's planned. Thanks.
dave
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
We don't have it yet, but we're working on it. Actually we have a very ambitious plan that should have at least 2 different speakers covering at least 10,000 words each (and hopefully even more), and we've got an interesting new idea for how to integrate this into our flashcard system. No firm release date but it will almost certainly be a part of Pleco 2.0.
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Oh yes, definitely. That's the main reason we want at least two - we'd like to have a nice big difference between the vocal pitches, since there are aspects to the sound of a word that might be obvious at a high frequency but not at a low one (or vice versa).
 

davean

Member
mikelove said:
We don't have it yet, but we're working on it. Actually we have a very ambitious plan that should have at least 2 different speakers covering at least 10,000 words each (and hopefully even more), and we've got an interesting new idea for how to integrate this into our flashcard system. No firm release date but it will almost certainly be a part of Pleco 2.0.

Thank you. That's really great news. I'll purchase as soon as I save enough $$$.

I'm really pleased I found you but I nearly didn't because when looking for PPC software I usually go to Handango or PocketGear and I don't think you're listed there. Hope you do get on Handango cos I get points towards free software for every purchase :lol:

Regards, dave
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
We've quite deliberately chosen not to list on Handango/PocketGear, because of the outrageous commissions (40% or more) they charge. Not to mention lots of silly restrictions like not letting us point customers to our own website in our product documentation. Plus, PalmGear stole $1500 from us back in 2002 - Handango sued them, they dipped into developers' earnings and used that to hire lawyers. They eventually paid back 20% of what they owed us, but the rest they kept. And then promptly proceeded to raise their commissions to the same level as Handango's, just to take away any possible reason why we wouldn't have wanted them to get sued into oblivion.

So even if I thought it was a good business move (which I don't - with all the royalties we have to pay, they'd be making more money from a sale than we would), just on general principle I refuse to do business with two companies so thoroughly repulsive as Handango and PalmGear. And I'll say what I say every time someone mentions them: if you find a product that looks interesting on one of those sites, do the right thing, Google for the developer's site and see if there's a way to buy the product from them directly. That way you'll be supporting the person who wrote the software instead of helping to further this evil duopoly.
 

davean

Member
:shock: Wow!! I didn't know that. That's a lot of money they're taking from developers. I wonder why more people don't just sell there sw direct? With things like paypal, ecommerce is available to everybody. But I always visit the developers site before I buy and either they only sell through Handango/PocketGear, or purchasing through other methods costs the same or more!

Thanks for clarifying things.
dave
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Legal Note: the following consists entirely of opinions and not facts, in spite of any suggestions to the contrary. (so please don't sue me for libel)

davean - a lot of developers do sell direct, but if you're putting out something like a game or a new organizer program it can be difficult to get the word out about it. We're fortunate that our product is sufficiently unique that it pretty much sells itself. (plus we have the world's greatest customers helping us get the word out :))

The latest trend has been for larger developers to act as distributors for smaller ones - Astraware, for example, used to only sell games they'd developed themselves, but now they've branched out to sell games from many other companies on their website. Handmark is another big one that's gone that route. I don't know exactly what the terms for those deals are like, but if they are forking over 40% I suspect they're getting a lot more value for their money in terms of co-marketing etc - 40% on PG basically just gets you a place in their catalog, you have to pay extra for banners etcetera.

The reason the software costs the same on the developer's site is that they're forbidden from setting the price lower by their agreement with PG/Handango - they have to offer them as good a price as can be had anywhere else.

sfrrr - Digital River is I believe much more reasonable, their RegNow unit for example charges 6.9% plus $1 with a $2 minimum - still pretty hefty if you're selling your product for $10, but in the $20+ range it's not too bad. Yahoo Store only charged us 1% on top of standard merchant account rates (somewhere around 2.5% plus $0.30), PayPal if your sales volume is $3k+ basically just charges the merchant account rates, eSellerate starts at 10% for small developers, jumps to 15% once your sales hit $15k and then slowly reduces the rate back to 10% by the time you hit $5 million (at which point you really ought to be running your own e-commerce system). The main problems are the PDA portal sites like PG/HD/PDassi/etc.

Of course the real nightmare is buying the software directly through your device manufacturer or cell carrier. AddIt, for example (that software-buying system that's built into newer Palms) pays DEVELOPERS a 30% commission, meaning they keep 70% of the money for themselves (or at least that's what we were quoted when they first launched, I can't imagine the commissions have gotten better since then). I've heard that some cell companies' stores pay even less. At Palm's online store, the agreement seems to forbid developers from putting any URLs or contact e-mails in their product or documentation that don't point to Palm's store, along with forbidding them from contacting customers unless they contact the developer first (which usually happens through Palm since that's the only support e-mail you're allowed to give them). And they keep a whopping 50%. Which is also the rate for most other PalmGear-managed sites, like PalmInfocenter's store.
 

sfrrr

状元
Mike--This is incredible. Do you think that the same applies to online superstores that sell PC and Mac hardware and software? If not, why are H and PG picking on PDA developers?

Sandra
 
Over the past year the quality of software published on PG has declined rapidly. Just browser through their "new software" list of the past 7 days or so: most of the new software are backgrounds for launchers and card games, with the same background announced multiple times for every software that could potentially make use of this background.

A few days ago I returned after long absence to recheck whether PG could have turned for the better. But no, they get even more insensible: fourty, fifty, or so entries from the same company advertising their dictionary software. They basically just put up front all possible language permutations. This is simply ridiculous.

The bottom line from watching PG's game is that they seem to be on a rapid decline and are forced to generate artifical new software volume in order to make it appear that they are still important.

However, what quality is PG if it is just transforming into a PDA Jamba? Well, for me, personally, it is not of any value at all. And with Palm itself ramming PalmOS into the ground my next PDA will most probably be a WinblowsCE-based device. Not that it is much better (albeit it appears that Mike and his crew had some problems less on this platform), but at least MS still tries to get it down the customer's throats, so it is still puring money into CE development. (This not withstanding that several developers I've talked to about WinCE development would like to throw it out of the window and away as far as possible :) )

Mike, thank you very much for your personal view on those companies!
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
sfrrr - The superstores are governed by different rules, since in most cases the publisher sets a wholesale price and offers only a suggested resale price - retailers have an incentive to keep prices low in order to stay competitive with other retailers, and hence they're motivated to keep their markups fairly reasonable. Of course the margins do vary, they're quite a bit higher for software than for hardware since software sales are almost pure profit, and there are plenty of shady dealings involving large sums of cash being paid for prominent placement in catalogs or even in brick-and-mortar stores, so even with non-PDA software, if you buy it directly from the developer they'll make a lot more money than if you by it in a store.

It's been suggested that Palm/PocketGear + Handango would work a lot more fairly if they adopted the same model as other stores (developer sets a wholesale price and PG+HD compete with each other to offer the lowest markup), but since those two companies have cornered the market and their contracts guarantee that they won't have to worry about other stores undercutting them on price, there's not really any incentive for them to give up their guaranteed 40%. And for some reason there don't seem to be any pay-per-listing or user subscription fee catalogs like Download.com/Tucows/VersionTracker for PDAs (those sites actually do offer PDA listings, but few developers and fewer customers use them).

haraldalbrecht - agree with you completely about the declining quality of software on PG, though this trend has been going on for quite a while. A big part of the problem is that there just aren't that many different types of applications that people are interested in running on their PDA. So whenever a new product idea comes along there's a sort-of land rush and you end up with a zillion nearly identical products doing the same thing; there must be 50 different Sudoku games now, for example, and a similar number of programs to organize your movie collection. The difficulty of programming PDAs further exacerbates the problem, since a lot developers stick to easy-to-code apps like Bejeweled knockoffs or the aforementioned movie databases. The reason the Pocket PC game scene is so much richer than the Palm one is because it's actually possible for a novice programmer to write an original and graphically-interesting game on Pocket PC; on Palm, between memory restrictions, processor speed limits and the lack of built-in OS support for a lot of game-design necessities, anything beyond the level of a basic puzzle game can be extremely difficult to get working effectively. And similarly, the Palm OS "hack" scene was extremely lively back in the pre-OS5 Hackmaster days because you could completely replace any system function with very little programming effort.

Stacking the listings with multiple flavors of the same product is a long-established tradition; Beiks/Ectaco et al can get themselves weeks of free front page advertising simply by updating one or two products after they release a bug-fix for their software engine. During the few months we were lising Berlitz on PG (a desperate attempt to drum up sales - didn't help much, and this was back when they were only charging 30%) we even tried this ourselves, but stopped after a few days when we realized it made us look like complete idiots.

PG is indeed on the decline, they're fighting with Handango and the increasingly-independent large developers for a bigger piece of a declining market and they're not winning. Handango is trying to build up a business selling software for mobile phones, but there's no way the cellular carriers will let them keep making money off of that - there's a reason why they're so eager to lock out people from Bluetooth file transfers and the like. (so you can see why we're in no hurry to support phones that aren't Palm or WinCE-based) And once handtops like the OQO get in the sub-$1000 range (they should be pretty close by next Christmas) the power users who buy most of the PDA software will start jumping ship to those and the picture will get even bleaker. Which is one of the reasons we're eagerly forging ahead with an x86 version of PlecoDict - it's not just for PCs anymore.
 

sfrrr

状元
Mike--I think we struck a nerve. (Can't blame you--anything that affects my livelihood gets me into an instant and long-lived lather.) Thanks for this. It is fascinating.

But did you mean "not just for PPCs" or what you wrote "not just for PCs?"

Thanks again,

Sandra
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Heh, you're very welcome. It's not just a livelihood thing, though, it's disappointment that the PDA software industry in general has gotten into the state it's in now - compare it to a similar business like Mac shareware (which after 10-15 years still seems to be as vibrant as ever) and it seems a bit sad that things faded out so quickly.

I meant "not just for PCs" - making an x86/WinXP version of PlecoDict might seem like an attempt to expand to the same market as Wenlin / Dr Eye / Kingsoft et al, but a big part of the reason for doing it is because going forward it's very likely that PDAs will be running the same OS as larger PCs.
 

lmcjipo

榜眼
Tucows?

Mike, I noticed that your old program is listed on Tucows when I was doing a search for some programs that I might need. How is their pay structure different from something like PalmGear?
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Actually they're just a straight catalog, I don't even think they offer sales and payment processing on their site. They list and review software for free and I think you can pay some sort of a subscription fee to get your catalog entries updated more quickly (or perhaps add some more advanced tracking features). They're mainly focused on PC software, PDAs are just a minor extra. This is the same model used by Download.com, they briefly flirted with charging for all listings then thought better of it and went back to letting you list your software for free if you don't mind waiting a week or two for them to post updates.

But I'm surprised to hear the old program is still in there - I've now sent them several e-mails asking that they remove it, since the old program is no longer for sale and we've had a number of people complain that we charge more for our software than Tucows does (when in fact Tucows isn't selling it at all). I'll have to send them another one.
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Yep, it's definitely the old software. We reset the version numbering with PlecoDict (in hindsight possibly not the best idea) so it's quite normal that it would be listed as 2.0.4.
 
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