Beta Dictionaries / Bundles

[mikelove]

In order to placate a) impatient customers and b) impatient publishers, we're thinking about launching a couple of dictionaries ahead of schedule for our existing iOS app; in other words, we'd release them without updating our app (and consequently without a few features / formatting improvements), then update them when the updated app is out. Specifically these would be:

• Classical dictionary
• TCM dictionary
• Traditional-centric dictionary

These were chosen purely for impatience reasons - if we were going to choose three dictionaries from our new set to release first for commercial reasons it wouldn't be this trio, but it seems like just about all of the unhappy email we're getting about the wait for dictionaries relates to one of these three. But they would all be a bit incomplete / beta-ish: the Classical because it won't support non-standard characters (new app feature), TCM because searching it as a bilingual E-C/C-E dictionary will be awkward (also new app feature), and the traditional-centric dictionary because we haven't finished adding simplified characters to it yet. But the combination of these three would make the wait for the finished app easier for a whole lot of people.

The question is whether we'd a) list these in the store officially, selling them as single dictionaries but also raising the price of the Complete bundle to $200 or so (we now have the ability to add items to that bundle without giving everybody who previously bought it a free copy of the things we added, so we no longer have the awkward problem of coming up with a new bundle name that's sufficiently different from Complete that people won't accidentally buy it again thinking it'll be a free re-purchase and get charged twice), or b) only list them through some sort of registration-required "beta program" and hide them from the non-diehards. If they're all "beta versions" then it seems like the latter option would be best, but then again even in beta form they'll still be cleaner than the current versions of some of our paid dictionaries, so as long as people were suitably warned we might want to put them in the general store.

So: any opinions on this, or on this release-some-dictionaries-early idea in general?

 

[scykei]

Well option B sounds good. How does option A work though?

I'm mostly waiting for the Cantonese dictionary. Is it coming out in this big update, or will it only be on the next? If it is, then can you please make Cantonese support a high priority for the following update, since I've read somewhere you might have already acquired the licences for some of them? Thanks.

Oh, and what's a TCM dictionary?

 

[gato]

Is there an option C of changing the "complete" name and then selling these individually? Don't you have to do this eventually when you introduce your 10 new dictionaries so that a complete bundle would starts getting into the $400-500 range?

 

[lechuan]

I would go with option B (beta). It will placate the eager ones, not introduce unnecessary confusion in the pricing structure, and still allow you to make a high-impact release.

Is it possible to allow the user to make their own dictionary bundles, perhaps a screen whe you select what dictionaries you want, and it incrementally applies a discount in proportion to the number of dictionaries being purchased?

 

[mikelove]

Well option B sounds good. How does option A work though?

We'd sell them as separate add-ons and also add them to a revised Complete Bundle. (sorry I wasn't clear on that)

I'm mostly waiting for the Cantonese dictionary. Is it coming out in this big update, or will it only be on the next? If it is, then can you please make Cantonese support a high priority for the following update, since I've read somewhere you might have already acquired the licences for some of them? Thanks.

Probably the next - we're still waiting on data files. There was this whole elaborate affair with our bank truncating the name of the publisher in the wire transfer in such a way as to cause their bank to reject it and us to have to negotiate / check / sign / exchange a whole new contract (darn Chinese banking regulations). Though this was only the latest in a long line of problems - we literally reached an agreement to license this dictionary two years ago but it's taken this long to get all of the paperwork sorted out for us to actually pay them royalties.

Oh, and what's a TCM dictionary?

Traditional Chinese Medicine. (though a lot of its practitioners hate that term)

Is there an option C of changing the "complete" name and then selling these individually? Don't you have to do this eventually when you introduce your 10 new dictionaries so that a complete bundle would starts getting into the $400-500 range?

We'd sell them individually too, sorry I wasn't clear on that.

Is it possible to allow the user to make their own dictionary bundles, perhaps a screen whe you select what dictionaries you want, and it incrementally applies a discount in proportion to the number of dictionaries being purchased?

Sadly no, Apple views each catalog item as immutable so there's no way for us to discount it based on previous purchases; we'd have to create a "Complete bundle for people who already purchased X, Y, and Z" for every possible combination we wanted to support (or at least every possible total price of previous purchases), and even then we might end up getting our update rejected because doing that isn't entirely kosher under Apple's rules.

 

[Alexis]

Sadly no, Apple views each catalog item as immutable so there's no way for us to discount it based on previous purchases; we'd have to create a "Complete bundle for people who already purchased X, Y, and Z" for every possible combination we wanted to support (or at least every possible total price of previous purchases), and even then we might end up getting our update rejected because doing that isn't entirely kosher under Apple's rules.

What if you had the option to buy "Pleco Credits" as in-app purchases, then you can use those credits from within Pleco to unlock whatever dictionaries you like? There could potentially be a discounts proportional to the number of credits you're buying.

 

[mikelove]

What if you had the option to buy "Pleco Credits" as in-app purchases, then you can use those credits from within Pleco to unlock whatever dictionaries you like? There could potentially be a discounts proportional to the number of credits you're buying.

Those are a strict no-no for Apple - they allow them in games but not anywhere else.

 

[dcarpent]

I admit to being impatient to get the new dictionaries, but if some of the publishers involved are also impatient, it seems like placating them would be the higher priority, lest you compromise your relationship with them. That said, the "B" option seems the easiest, if it would satisfy the publishers. But how will you charge for them if they are still "beta," and if you don't charge for a limited beta release, how will this placate the publishers (who I assume want to start receiving royalties)?

Amazing (shocking) story about having to wait two years to iron out legal details on a single dictionary! No wonder it has taken so long! I DO look forward to the new releases, though, however and whenever they take place.

 

[mikelove]

I admit to being impatient to get the new dictionaries, but if some of the publishers involved are also impatient, it seems like placating them would be the higher priority, lest you compromise your relationship with them. That said, the "B" option seems the easiest, if it would satisfy the publishers. But how will you charge for them if they are still "beta," and if you don't charge for a limited beta release, how will this placate the publishers (who I assume want to start receiving royalties)?

There aren't very many impatient publishers here - this list would cover all of them and pretty much all of our impatient users in one go. We actually would be charging for these beta versions, I think - we'll make it perfectly clear they're unfinished and nobody should buy them without knowing that, but I don't see anything wrong with charging people for betas if they get the finished product for free.

Amazing (shocking) story about having to wait two years to iron out legal details on a single dictionary! No wonder it has taken so long! I DO look forward to the new releases, though, however and whenever they take place.

Thanks! The two year delay has also let us bring in two other Cantonese options (or three, depending on how you count) but we'd really like to have this one included too since it's the best general-purpose title for our purposes.

 

[goldyn chyld]

B would probably be better in this case.. However, how would you price these betas then? For example, I'm currently a "Complete Bundle" user and will probably want to have a complete bundle once the rest of the dictionaries get released, too. If we pay for these betas now, how will it calculate later on if we were to purchase a complete bundle? Would the 3 dict prices get subtracted from it?

 

[mikelove]

B would probably be better in this case.. However, how would you price these betas then? For example, I'm currently a "Complete Bundle" user and will probably want to have a complete bundle once the rest of the dictionaries get released, too. If we pay for these betas now, how will it calculate later on if we were to purchase a complete bundle? Would the 3 dict prices get subtracted from it?

We'd also sell them individually - sorry, it seems like a lot of people missed that part so I just updated my original post to clarify it.

It's not possible within the confines of Apple's system for people to upgrade between bundles; however, we can sell a couple of dictionaries together in a discounted "dictionary pack" to save you money that way, and we plan to offer a set of packs for previous dictionary buyers that will consist only of new dictionaries and not old ones you might have already bought. Apple did recently add the ability for us to detect if somebody is re-purchasing-for-free a bundle they bought previously, and thanks to that we can now keep the same "Complete Bundle" name but change the items in it based on when you bought it / what you paid for it, which was not possible before (and was going to compel us to stop offering a complete bundle at all).

We're not planning to offer a "pack" of the beta dictionaries, though, as they don't really go together and it's unlikely many people would want all three (the TCM dictionary is extremely interesting for people working in the traditional Chinese medicine field, but if you're a regular Chinese language student - however advanced / enthusiastic - it might not be worth the trouble to get).

 

[character]

It sounds like the range of dictionaries available Pleco has grown enough that a complete bundle may not make sense any more. Maybe offer a few bundles of Professional + a subset of additional dictionaries, i.e. a language scholars bundle, a business people bundle, etc. Having a high-priced Complete bundle may just drive more sales of Professional and fewer of Complete (meaning fewer dictionaries sales overall).

 

[mikelove]

It sounds like the range of dictionaries available Pleco has grown enough that a complete bundle may not make sense any more. Maybe offer a few bundles of Professional + a subset of additional dictionaries, i.e. a language scholars bundle, a business people bundle, etc. Having a high-priced Complete bundle may just drive more sales of Professional and fewer of Complete (meaning fewer dictionaries sales overall).

We're not planning to offer it prominently anymore - if nothing else the price would be scary enough to turn off a lot of potential buyers from cheaper bundles, and we don't want to suggest that there's anything deficient about a cheaper bundle either. The main bundle scheme now is going to be successors to the current Basic and Professional bundles plus a bunch of "dictionary packs" of various dictionaries that relate to each other in some way - much better to do dictionary-only bundles since it spares people from paying for flashcards or handwriting or whatever multiple times.

However, there's enough lingering interest in a Complete bundle that we're starting to lean towards continuing to offer one buried somewhere - might only sell a few copies a week, but they're pretty lucrative copies

 

[character]

The main bundle scheme now is going to be successors to the current Basic and Professional bundles plus a bunch of "dictionary packs" of various dictionaries that relate to each other in some way - much better to do dictionary-only bundles since it spares people from paying for flashcards or handwriting or whatever multiple times.

However, there's enough lingering interest in a Complete bundle that we're starting to lean towards continuing to offer one buried somewhere - might only sell a few copies a week, but they're pretty lucrative copies

You know your business best, so this is just my thoughts.

Right now you have 50/100/150 tiers, which is easy to understand and along the lines of other 3-tiered pricing, the old BMW 3/5/7 series being the most famous example. If you just up the Complete price, you end up with 50/100/200, so I'd suggest either way adding some $150 bundles like BMW added the 6 series. I think you might be leaving money on the table if people get sticker shock from the Complete bundle being twice as expensive as the Professional and have no other option except Professional (or Basic). OTOH, if your problem is not enough people buying Professional, then 50/100/200 might drive more people to Professional.

Anyway, I'm excited to see if any of the dictionaries are of interest. If only you could license a dictionary with wuxia phrases. :wink:

 

[mikelove]

Right now you have 50/100/150 tiers, which is easy to understand and along the lines of other 3-tiered pricing, the old BMW 3/5/7 series being the most famous example. If you just up the Complete price, you end up with 50/100/200, so I'd suggest either way adding some $150 bundles like BMW added the 6 series. I think you might be leaving money on the table if people get sticker shock from the Complete bundle being twice as expensive as the Professional and have no other option except Professional (or Basic). OTOH, if your problem is not enough people buying Professional, then 50/100/200 might drive more people to Professional.

The general new thinking is that we don't really want to push anybody to buy anything more than Basic or Professional initially - Complete would just be a somewhat-buried option that we might sell a few people on, but for most users the next step up from Professional is Professional plus one or more "Dictionary Packs." Still going back and forth about that, though.

 

[yoose]

Probably the next - we're still waiting on data files. There was this whole elaborate affair with our bank truncating the name of the publisher in the wire transfer in such a way as to cause their bank to reject it and us to have to negotiate / check / sign / exchange a whole new contract (darn Chinese banking regulations). Though this was only the latest in a long line of problems - we literally reached an agreement to license this dictionary two years ago but it's taken this long to get all of the paperwork sorted out for us to actually pay them royalties.

thats disappointing to hear as Cantonese is also the main dictionary(ies) that I am waiting for; sucks that you ran into so many problems. is there any sort of timeline on this? as to when you might receive the data files and how long it takes to process once you get them?

looking forward to the new update with increased functionality, keep up the good work.

 

[mikelove]

thats disappointing to hear as Cantonese is also the main dictionary(ies) that I am waiting for; sucks that you ran into so many problems. is there any sort of timeline on this? as to when you might receive the data files and how long it takes to process once you get them?

Hoo, don't even want to speculate on that - files won't take too long, but fitting Cantonese support into our coding schedule (obviously we didn't want to put in the time coding it until we had all of the dictionaries signed) is a bit more dicey. Certainly we'd make it a top priority once we have the files lined up, though.

 

[scykei]

Well, is it possible if you allow us to enable jyutping in place of pinyin? Most of the time I wouldn't need a dictionary since I'm already familiar with the colloquial Cantonese words people use in chat. It's just that I don't know how to pronounce all of the words in Cantonese, so I always need to go through the Character Info screen to check that. Can you make it a little simpler?

It would be extremely tricky though, since many words in the Unihan have several pronunciations for a single Cantonese word, some which I've never heard used before for that character. Also, words will be read differently when you're reading it formally or informally.

 

[mikelove]

Well, is it possible if you allow us to enable jyutping in place of pinyin? Most of the time I wouldn't need a dictionary since I'm already familiar with the colloquial Cantonese words people use in chat. It's just that I don't know how to pronounce all of the words in Cantonese, so I always need to go through the Character Info screen to check that. Can you make it a little simpler?

It would be extremely tricky though, since many words in the Unihan have several pronunciations for a single Cantonese word, some which I've never heard used before for that character. Also, words will be read differently when you're reading it formally or informally.

Yes, this is why we can't do it - too many characters with more than one pronunciation, so we have to have dedicated data for each entry in order to do this properly. (which is something we're working on)

 

[scykei]

Great! Just wondering, Mike. Do you know how to speak Cantonese?