Idiom, or not idiom

[Dapi Ocelp]

I understand that linguistic purism considers that "idioms" (chéngyǔ) can only be used for expressions composed of 4 characters. This is to say that Pleco should not call expressions formed of 5, 6, etc. characters 'idioms".
e.g.,
患难见真情 (huànnànjiànzhēnqíng)
True sentiments are seen in hard times (idiom)
百闻不如一见 (bǎi wén bùrú yī jiàn)
Seeing once is better than hearing a hundred times (idiom)

 

[Shun]

Hi Dapi Ocelp (or "iPad Pleco user" ),

thanks for opening that thread, the issue is simply that "idiom" is a broader term than 成语. As usual, the English Wikipedia article on "Chengyu" puts it well:

"Chinese idioms are one of four types of formulaic expressions (熟语; 熟語; shúyǔ), which also include collocations (惯用语; 慣用語; guànyòngyǔ), two-part allegorical sayings called xiehouyu, and proverbs (谚语; 諺語; yànyǔ)." (and chéngyǔ)

And on chéngyǔ: "While not the only idioms in Chinese, and not always four characters long, they are often referred to as Chinese idioms or four-character idioms."

So Pleco should be right in calling those other cases idioms.

Cheers,

Shun

 

[Dapi Ocelp]

Thanks for your clarification, Shun.
The WIkipedia classification for proverbs (谚语 ) as part of the idioms looks strange. Actually,
Idiom: phrase that has a meaning of its own that cannot be understood from the meanings of its individual words. The literal meaning of an idiom usually doesn’t make sense, and idioms can be almost impossible to understand unless you have learned or heard them before.
while
Proverb: short popular saying that gives advice about how people should behave or that expresses a belief that is generally thought to be true. The literal meaning of a proverb does makes sense on its own, but it’s not until you apply this meaning to a broader set of situations that you understand the real point of the proverb.
Source: Britannica Dictionary
WRT "While not the only idioms in Chinese, and not always four characters long, they are often referred to as Chinese idioms or four-character idioms.", this is why I took care to specify that the 4 characters definition for 成语 (chéngyǔ) is that of language purists.

 

[Shun]

You're welcome! I think we are in agreement. Wikipedia may define idioms too loosely and Britannica a bit too narrowly. Actually, Wikipedia didn't classify proverbs under idioms, but next to them. However, if Pleco continues to go by a loose definition of idioms, that would be fine with me.