Flashcards: custom test/reveal per list?

[koreth]

This is probably getting into the realm of "impossible for new users to understand," but with well over 1000 flashcards from different sources in my Palm, I'm starting to wish I could override the rank-based test/reveal rules on a per-list basis.

For instance, one of my flashcard lists is for single characters from McNaughton's "Reading and Writing Chinese." I have my custom test/reveal rules set up with that in mind: at rank 1, I'm shown the characters and tested on the Pinyin and definition; at rank 2, I'm shown the Pinyin and definition and tested on the characters, and so on, with the Pinyin and definition always either tested or revealed together. Testing myself on just the definition is no good for that list because there are, for example, too many characters that the book defines as meaning "to do; to make" and I wouldn't know which one of them it wanted.

For vocabulary from other places, though, I *do* want to be tested on just the definition. And for vocabulary from audio sources like the Pimsleur Mandarin series, I don't necessarily know the characters, so I just want to be tested on Pinyin and definitions, alternating back and forth as the rank increases.

Right now I have to test one of those lists, finish, go and reset the test settings, test the other list, set the settings again, test the third list, and set the settings back. Kind of a hassle. I end up wasting several minutes of each test session just fiddling with PlecoDict's test settings. Obviously it's still much nicer than a stack of paper flashcards, but it could be better.

It would be great if one of the properties of a flashcard list was a by-rank test/reveal list. If it's set, and the main test/reveal setting is set to "By Rank," then the per-list settings are used. Otherwise the systemwide setting is used as a default.

That would let me test myself on all my different flashcard types in one test session, which would be a real treat.

Or if there's already another way to do what I want, I'd love to hear it!

 

[mikelove]

Interesting that you'd suggest this - this was actually part of the original flashcard system design (it was even partly-implemented in an early development version), but we specifically took it out because we decided it made things too complicated for most users. And the system is still more complicated than it should be - I know some people are clamoring for more features, but we get lots and lots of e-mails asking for help understanding what ranks / flags / lists / fields / etc are, so a major design priority (in fact THE major design priority) for the Pleco 2.0 flashcard system is that the basic interface needs to be simpler and more approachable - the advanced options I've been writing about lately will only be accessible through extra screens or some sort of optional "advanced" interface.

That being said, there's one almost-certain new feature in 2.0 that would make this a lot easier: a sytem for creating test "profiles", so that you can save multiple sets of test/card settings (and flashcard list selections) and switch between them with a simple pop-up menu. With this, you could create one profile for the McNaughton cards, another for the Pimsleur ones, etc. This wouldn't be quite as good as the system you describe, since it wouldn't let you easily mix vocabulary from different lists (and their attendant behaviors), but if we don't come up with something better then this would at least save you the hassle of having to constantly tweak the field settings.

 

[koreth]

Test profiles would probably be convenient enough to satisfy me. Thanks.

Though I will push any "Advanced" button I come across. (No matter what the app is. It's a genetic compulsion. Must understand every option.)

 

[johnh113]

flashcards suggestions

Dear Mike,

Since we're talking enhanced flashcards for 2.0, I'll add a couple suggestions.

1. Sometimes, I'd like to know from which dictionary the flashcard definition was pulled. I go to the information page, but that data is not there.

2. Sometimes, I'd like to pull the definition from a different dictionary than the one that Pleco did, for example, to get more hanzi in the definition instead of just pinyin.

3. Sometimes I'd like the ability to choose a different definition than the one that Pleco chose. Why? Because sometimes the definition chosen by Pleco is useless. For example, sometimes the chosen definition just refers me to another entry, which I can't go to since I'm in the flashcards. Or the definition chosen by Pleco isn't really a definition, just a listing of words that use that character. And sometimes, there is no definition at all, just pinyin. In these cases I'd like to switch definitions.

I suspect you'll suggest I go to "manage lists" and edit that list. Unfortunately, many of the flashcard lists are extremely long (HSK2,3,4) and it would be very difficult to find that particular word among 2000+ words. It would be much more efficient if I could edit the offending entry when it occurs.

John

 

[Anonymous]

I don' t understand requests 2 and 3 -- the software doesn't choose a dictionary entry on the fly. Each flashcard refers to a specific entry in a specific dictionary.

When you hit the "add flashcard" button it uses whatever dictionary entry you're currently looking at. You can use any dictionary you want, including the user dictionary. I usually create my own dictionary entries for my flashcards, though sometimes I use ABC and sometimes I use ADSO (and on rare occasions, even the Unihan dictionary.) I have never once seen PlecoDict display a different dictionary entry in flashcard mode than the one I chose when I created a flashcard. In some cases I have more than one user dictionary entry for exactly the same word, and it always uses the one I want.

Is what you're really asking for a UI to rebuild an imported flashcard list with dictionary entries other than the ones the list's author chose?

 

[johnh113]

flashcard suggestions

Dear Guest,

"Is what you're really asking for a UI to rebuild an imported flashcard list with dictionary entries other than the ones the list's author chose?"

Yes, I'm talking about using an imported flashcard list. But I think that you slightly misunderstand what a flashcard list is. Typically, the flashcard list does NOT include the dictionary entries that the author chose. That would probably be a violation of copyright law and something that Pleco would carefully avoid. Typically the list has the character, and maybe the pinyin, and then the definition is extracted from one of the Pleco dictionaries. Since some characters have multiple pronunciations and tones, it is actually quite easy to get a definition that was not what the author originally intended, and in fact, can be next to useless.

John

 

[lmcjipo]

Re: flashcard suggestions

Dear Guest,

"Is what you're really asking for a UI to rebuild an imported flashcard list with dictionary entries other than the ones the list's author chose?"

Yes, I'm talking about using an imported flashcard list. But I think that you slightly misunderstand what a flashcard list is. Typically, the flashcard list does NOT include the dictionary entries that the author chose. That would probably be a violation of copyright law and something that Pleco would carefully avoid. Typically the list has the character, and maybe the pinyin, and then the definition is extracted from one of the Pleco dictionaries. Since some characters have multiple pronunciations and tones, it is actually quite easy to get a definition that was not what the author originally intended, and in fact, can be next to useless.

John

I have the Complete Bundle of PlecoDict (plus all the non-supported free additional add-in dictionaries) and when I click on the "Add" icon on the top of my screen to add a character to my default flashcard list, it picks the definition that is currently on my screen. If I'm not satisfied with the Oxford definition and prefer the ABC definition, I just click on the "Add" icon when I am looking at the ABC definition. I've never come across my flashcard giving the definition that I didn't want/add/select.

However, I'm now creating my custom flashcard definitions since I prefer the definitions used in the flashcards to be more in line with what is in the textbook that I am using in my Mandarin class.

The reason I'm now using a custom definition for the flashcards is because when I study the new words from my textbook (both pinyin & Chinese characters), I use the flashcards to show the definition. I then try to come up with the correct pinyin and Chinese character for that definition which is hard to do when I use one of the definitions from the PlecoDict dictionaries that I purchased.

 

[mikelove]

Thanks for the detailed suggestions. You're correct that a flashcard list does not include the actual dictionary entries, but it actually does include a link to a specific dictionary and entry. The Pinyin and characters are pulled from that dictionary entry too, so really all the flashcard contains is the embedded dictionary link. The flashcard lists on our website do include the pinyin and characters, but that data is not retained in PlecoDict once they've been matched up with a particular dictionary entry.

However, this is far from an ideal setup, not only because it doesn't allow you to easily pick an alternate definition for a flashcard but also because it makes it difficult to map flashcards between different versions of a particular dictionary. So in 2.0 we're going to be completely overhauling the way flashcards are created and stored, and among other things it should be possible to easily toggle between different dicitonary entries for a particular card (or even display aggregated definitions from more than one dictionary). And of course our new desktop sync software should make all of this much much easier, letting you create / edit / manage flashcards on your PC instead of having to tediously type them out on a Palm.

One minor point on your suggestion #3, though: when there's no definition at all, that usually means that no definition could be found for that word in any dictionary; in those cases, PlecoDict creates a stub entry in the user dictionary which you can fill in later with a definition. So if you toggle to the USR dictionary you can use the Edit Entry feature to fill in those definitions.