Buying a new Palm

Hi

I am currently using PlecoDict on an old Tungsten and am thinking of buying a new Palm Zire 72s. Does anyone know how well PlecoDict works on this? Also, how do I go about installing PlecoDict on the new PDA along with all of my flashcards etc.

Many thanks for any advice.
 

lmcjipo

榜眼
satellite360 said:
Hi

I am currently using PlecoDict on an old Tungsten and am thinking of buying a new Palm Zire 72s. Does anyone know how well PlecoDict works on this? Also, how do I go about installing PlecoDict on the new PDA along with all of my flashcards etc.

Many thanks for any advice.

Hi.

I started a thread a few days ago on a similar issue (upgrading my PalmOS PDA).

I got a new Treo 650 and wanted to transfer most of the programs including PlecoDict from my old Treo 600 to my new Treo 650 by doing a clean install.

You can find some of the answers in this thread: viewtopic.php?t=552

I have no clue about the Palm Zire 72s but I'm sure that it will work fine. Others who have this PDA might give you their opinions on it. I can only give my opinion regarding PlecoDict running on either a Treo 600 or a Treo 650 since I've only experienced running PlecoDict on both of these devices.


Thanks.
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Yes, the Zire 72 should work quite well, though you'll need to purchase a memory expansion card (if you don't have one already) in order to accommodate all of the data files in the Professional or Complete version of PlecoDict. But the Zire 72 has been discontinued for a while, so make sure you get a good price on it. What type of Tungsten are you upgrading from?

As for copying PlecoDict over, just follow these steps:

1) Before you set up your new PDA, HotSync your old PDA with your PC, then go into the C:\Program Files\palmOne\(your username)\ directory on your hard drive and rename the "Backup" folder to "Old Backup".
2) HotSync your new PDA with your PC; when it prompts you to select a username, choose the same username you had before.
3) Log on to http://www.pleco.com/orders.html to re-download your keyfile.
4) Proceed with installing/unlocking the software, just like you did when you originally bought it.
5) Go into that "Old Backup" folder and locate the "PlecoDict Flashcards" and "PlecoDict User DB C-E" files; double-click each of those files to queue it up for installation to your new PDA.
6) Sync your new PDA with your PC, and check to make sure your flashcards copied over successfully. Assuming they did, you can now go ahead and erase / sell your old PDA.
 
Thanks for the advice both. I haven't totally made up my mind to buy the Zire 72 yet but it does appeal as I want a PDA that I can listen to MP3 files on. My old PDA is a Tungsten C and the screen is becoming very unresponsive so I definitely do need to make a change. Any other PDA you would recommend?
 

johnh113

榜眼
Dear Mike,

You said
5) Go into that "Old Backup" folder and locate the "PlecoDict Flashcards" and "PlecoDict User DB C-E" files; double-click each of those files to queue it up for installation to your new PDA.

I'm not buying a new PDA at this time, but I was just looking in the folder to see if those files were indeed there. The "PlecoDict User DB C-E" file was there, but no "PlecoDict Flashcards" file.

I've imported a lot of flashcard lists from your site, like HSK and PCR, and have also entered several textbooks worth of flashcards. A simple hot-sync did not make them appear in the backup directory. To get them to appear in the backup folder during a hot-sync operation, I "exported" an appropriate collection of lists under an appropriate name. Now when I hot-sync, those exported files show up in my backup directory. But nothing named "PlecoDict Flashcards".

I'm using an older Clie, so the directory is in Palm rather than PalmOne if that makes any difference.

I am able to get everything to back up, so this isn't a problem. I just have to have done an "export" first.

John
 

lmcjipo

榜眼
satellite360 said:
Thanks for the advice both. I haven't totally made up my mind to buy the Zire 72 yet but it does appeal as I want a PDA that I can listen to MP3 files on. My old PDA is a Tungsten C and the screen is becoming very unresponsive so I definitely do need to make a change. Any other PDA you would recommend?

If you want an all in one device (phone, camera, MP3 player, PalmOS PDA, etc.), I have no problems recommending the Treo 650. I've had mine for approximately 1 week (previously had a Treo 600) and it is great.

I also have no problems recommending the Treo 600. The only "issue" with the Treo 600 is that it is a "standard resolution" (marketing term for "low resolution") PalmOS device. However, you won't have any issues reading the Chinese characters in PlecoDict with the terrific magnifying feature.

Both support memory expansion via the SD memory slot. I previously ran PlecoDict almost entirely off the SD memory card on my Treo 600 and now with my Treo 650, I'm running it under the same configuration so PlecoDict has a relatively small "footprint" depending on your configuration and number of flashcards.

If you get a Treo 650 (or a Treo 600), make sure that you have the latest firmware. Previous firmwares were said to be "buggy" for both devices. I personally haven't had any issues with my old Treo 600 or my new Treo 650 but then again, I didn't buy either of these items when they first became available.
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
johnh113 - so you're sure there's no "PlecoDict_Flashcards.PDB" in that folder? In that case, perhaps the backup bit isn't set correctly (there was a bug with that in one of the beta versions) - download and install the free utility FileZ, run it, click "View and Edit Files", "Internal", scroll to "PlecoDict Flashcards", select it, and press the Details button. Choose the "Attrs" tab and see if "Backup" is checked; if not, check it, press Save, then HotSync your Palm again and the file should back up.

lmcjipo - agree with you completely on the 650, now that they've fixed most of the bugs it's a great system. We're planning to allow flashcards and user dictionaries to be stored on an SD card in version 2, so that should help reduce the memory footprint somewhat.
 

lmcjipo

榜眼
mikelove said:
lmcjipo - agree with you completely on the 650, now that they've fixed most of the bugs it's a great system. We're planning to allow flashcards and user dictionaries to be stored on an SD card in version 2, so that should help reduce the memory footprint somewhat.

Anything that frees up the available non-expandable memory (system memory) on PalmOS PDAs (and I guess on PocketPC PDAs) would be great!

On a somewhat related subject, I've always wanted to ask a Palm programmer this but why can't all/most programs run off the SD memory card? I can understand why some programs need to be in main memory because they have a conduit that transfers information between the PC and the PalmOS device during a hotsynch or they are "system enhancements" like ringtone rule programs, alarm programs, etc. but I don't understand why some programs that don't have conduits or are "system enhancements" can't do this.

In regards to PlecoDict, why can't the handwriting recognition, the flashcards, etc. be run off the SD memory card with the current version of PlecoDict? Is there something that the PalmOS can do with main memory that it can't do with external memory (like SD memory)? Or is it that these components can be placed into external memory but would cause the program to run/react slower?
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
The main reason why programs can't always be run off of an SD memory card is that the mechanism for accessing data on an SD card is completely different from the mechanism for accessing data in internal memory. Essentially, when Palm OS first came out, it was designed to work on small devices which only used RAM for storage and were primarily supposed to act as organizers; consequently, the Palm OS file storage system was designed specifically around that.

On most computers, data files are accessed sort of like an audio or video tape; you "fast-forward" or "rewind" to the place in the file you want to begin reading or writing data, then "play" or "record" to read data from the file or write data to it. On Palm, however, data files are more like a deck of flashcards; you retrieve data by finding the particular card you want, and you write data by either writing some more stuff on the card or by inserting a new card into the deck. This is actually a very efficient and time-saving approach if all you're trying to do is organize a few hundred or a few thousand contacts/appointments/notes/etc, but for various reasons it becomes extremely inefficient when you're trying to work with more than a few thousand "cards" at once, and because you can only fit a limited amount of data on each "card", it can be rather awkward and inelegant when you're trying to store something long and complicated like an MP3 file. (imagine trying to write a novel on a stack of index cards)

Anyway, when Palm added support for add-on memory cards in Palm OS 4.0, they abandoned this system and switched to the more conventional fast-forward/rewind model, both because the old system was no longer efficient and because they wanted to be able to work with files in standard data formats like JPEG, MP3, etc. However, this required them to roll out a completely different interface for manipulating files on memory cards than the one that was used for files in internal memory. Since the thousands of existing Palm OS applications were all built to use the older system, they kept it in place for internal memory and restricted the newer system to add-on memory cards only. But any application that wanted to read/write data from an SD card would have to be heavily redesigned in order to be able to do so. And since a lot of programs' data formats had been optimized around accessing data in that "index card" format, in a lot of cases (including our own software, prior to the release of PlecoDict with its spiffy new data caching system), even after an application had been altered to read/write data on SD cards, actually doing so would often slow it down to the point where it would become almost unusable. Making matters worse still was the fact that Palm hadn't actually done a very good job with implementing this new file system, and it lacked the data caching and other performance optimizations that you might find on another system like Linux or WinCE.

So basically, in most cases applications won't work on SD cards due to a combination of programmer laziness and performance issues. Incidentally, this distinction in file formats is also why you still can't install text files, MP3s, etc, directly into a Palm's internal memory, at least not without converting them to .pdb first - the Palm file storaqge system will only work with files that are cut up to work as "index cards" and can't accommodate any other type of file. .pdbs can be stored on SD cards because that conversion is much simpler - the data on the "index cards" is simply written out in order as one big block of data.

Regarding our software specifically, the reason why neither of our handwriting recognizers has been able to run from an SD card is because the companies we licensed them from didn't bother designing them to do so. The vast majority of their sales/licenses are to OEMs and hardware distributors that want to build a Chinese handwriting recognizer right into their PDA/smartphone; there's no need for an SD card version in those cases, and the comparatively tiny percentage of their sales that come from add-on software vendors like Pleco are insufficient to justify the (rather sizable) programming effort that would be needed to enable SD card support.

As for the flashcards / user dictionaries not working, this was mostly the result of a stupid design decision on my part - Oxford Dict had used something like half a dozen different file formats for its various data files, and I was insistent that PlecoDict would use one and only one format for every single file, even on different platforms. The problem with this was that it necessitated designing all of PlecoDict's data files around that old Palm file format, since that was the only way the data files could work both in a Palm's internal memory and on an SD card. This actually worked quite well for read-only data files, we'd simply find the particular "index card" we needed and load its contents into memory and the result wasn't really any less efficient than most database storage systems, but it became very problematic with editable data files like flashcards - so much so, in fact, that we ended up having to change the format on Pocket PC and store flashcards / user dictionary entries as ".peb" files instead. In Pleco 2.0, we'll still use the same format for read-only files (since we've spent a lot of time developing it and it really does work pretty well), but we'll be using a new format for editable files that will allow us to easily write data to an SD card on Palm (while only slightly reducing performance in Palm internal memory, which should be more than made up for by the fact that we're adding accelerated code for ARM processors).
 

lmcjipo

榜眼
Thanks Mike for your detailed explanation. I read it over a few times and actually understood what you wrote :wink:
 
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