iPhone SDK

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
We've noticed that; hopefully the same will apply to us, but since we can't be completely certain that it will we can't say anything about pricing / upgrade policies until we've actually got an approved application in the store.
 
I noticed in the Pleco Beta forums that many of the bugs are related to the flashcard subsystem. I'm one of those that never uses flashcards. One idea is to port the dictionary subsystem to iPhone first (that would benefit me :) )
 
While I can appreciate your personal user habits for Pleco, for me having the flashcards on the iPhone are a deal breaker. I won't purchase an iPhone version of Pleco until the flashcards are included. But, that is just my personal user habit! :D
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
And there you have our problem - since the iTunes store doesn't support demo versions, a lot of people would be buying Pleco for iPhone based simply on the fact that the store listing said "Pleco for iPhone," and would likely be somewhat ticked off if they were expecting it to include flashcards but it didn't. Then again, if we called the non-flashcard version "Pleco Lite for iPhone," and put in giant capital letters in the description that THIS VERSION OF PLECO DOES NOT INCLUDE FLASHCARDS, it would be tough for anyone to complain. And certainly the lack of a decent Chinese-English dictionary for iPhone right now presents an excellent market opportunity for us.

The bugs in the flashcard system almost all involve the cross-platform aspects of it rather than the Palm/WM-specific ones, though - the interface would actually be pretty easy to port over to iPhone, I think, since it's pretty much all driven by simple button taps. Whereas in the main dictionary we have to come up with some way to do text selection even though the iPhone doesn't officially support it, since there are so many useful features that require that.

More likely candidates for getting cut in the iPhone version are the document reader (tough to use on a device without a user-accessible file system) and Instant Access (useless without an official text selection system supported in Safari/SMS/Mail, even assuming we could get it working) - replacements for them (like an integrated reader that pulled text out of e-mails / SMSes) might come eventually but they certainly wouldn't be needed in the initial release. We'd likely also simplify the interface in some areas, since a lot of the current customization options aren't all that useful on an iPhone (a radical table for example would be pretty useless unless it was fullscreen, so no need for a palette one of those) and new iPhone-specific options would make more sense to add after we'd gotten some user feedback from the first release.
 
Yeah, that is a conundrum considering your current users' usage habits. I suppose the Pleco Lite that you have talked about on several occasions is the easiest middle ground, but then your current users that are both interested in having a version for their iPhones and do use the flashcards regularly (not sure how many that would be, and they may not be a significant number), will be faced with the dilemma of buying the Pleco Lite for their phones, or waiting for the "full" version to come out. Unless they are rich and can afford to own three licenses for Pleco :D

It still seems to me though, that the majority of language learners prefer to have the capability of using flashcards, and that it is the minority that don't use them.
 
I'd like to have flash cards in Pleco, too.
I simply love that part of the app.

But here's an idea for the text selection that has just flashed my mind (hence it may be not quite thought through):
The iPhone lets you place a cursor anywhere in the text, even inside a word.
Why not make it like this:

1. Put the cursor (with that cute/usefull/annoying magnifying glass) directly left to the char./word/sentence that you want to search.
2. Hit a special button, created for this kind of search.
3. The search will put out a list that includes results for the searched word/char. or even a whole sentence that followed the cursor.

Another way — requiring more steps from the user, though — would be to;
1. place the cursor either left to a word/char., or inside a word/multi-character word.
2. Hit the new "highlight button" that, at the first touch, highlights the word/char., next the surrounding expression, next the whole sentence, if existent.
3. Touch the regular search-button and get the results.

(I think it should be possible to detect a sentence after the cursor, rather the complete remaining dict-entry)

Both approaches would require an adaptive interface, as with so many buttons, the interface would be cramped.
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
hairyleprechaun - that's true, but flashcards have indeed been the source of an awful lot of the delays in 2.0, so in terms of making Pleco more maintainable going forward I'd certainly be interested in seeing how well a flashcard-free version would sell; if that was a success we could consider putting the dictionary and flashcard systems into two separate applications in the future, which might make things easier to maintain / manage. (and also let people pay less for the software if they didn't need the flashcard function)

mangochutney - thanks. We've got a bunch of ideas on that, actually - a couple of them similar to the current document reader interface, ironically enough. (tapping on text to get an automatic highlight that could then be resized / moved around)
 
mikelove said:
mangochutney - thanks. We've got a bunch of ideas on that, actually - a couple of them similar to the current document reader interface, ironically enough. (tapping on text to get an automatic highlight that could then be resized / moved around)

Dammit! I was hoping for a discount if my idea would've been realised :mrgreen:

As to the two separate apps for FC and dict;
I don't know if like this approach.
A function I hold very dear, is adding a word I stumbles across to one of my FC-lists.
With two different apps that should prove difficult as IIRC communication between separate apps is limited.
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Oh we'd only do it if they could be as seamlessly integrated in terms of adding cards as they are now. But that's not necessarily that hard, you just need a way for the dictionary end to handle flashcard filing and the flashcard end to read a list of newly-added dictionary entries from the dictionary end.

The iPhone provides a scenario in which we can reasonably get away with releasing a version of Pleco without flashcards (whereas if we were to, say, remove the flashcard feature altogether in Pleco 3.0 there'd be people rioting in the streets), and since we haven't had a flashcard-less version of Pleco since sometime in 2003 it seems like it might be worth experimenting with - there are a couple of platforms like BlackBerry that we've stayed away from in large part because of flashcards (in BlackBerry's case, because there's no way to get a decent-performing database system when you're stuck with Java and SQLite isn't built-in), and if an iPhone version without flashcards (released on the way to eventually releasing a flashcard-equipped version, don't worry) proved successful that might make it possible to consider supporting some platforms with a non-flashcard version.

But that's just one approach, we still might go with a full-featured initial release too (especially if someone comes out with a better Chinese dictionary for iPhone and we feel like we have to work harder to outdo them).
 

radioman

状元
I have some thoughts on the iPhone version.

For those are not exposed to Pleco yet, having a light version I think does make a lot of sense. My guess is that there are people out there that need a decent dictionary that can chase down pinyin entered compounds, etc. (I know I looked for one for a long time). If there is a good, tight dictionary that can be put out just by itself, my guess is that there would be value.

As for me, if there are no flashcards, I will not buy it - mostly because I need the flashcards, and so I would need to be walking around with a separate Pleco device already. Also, I think where Pleco really shines and is differentiated is how it is geared to high-end learning of the language.

And not that Im gonna spend anytime learning it right now, but what about Japanese? They have iPhones in Japanese market as well (don't they?).. wonder what similar products exist there...
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
The tough thing with a Japanese dictionary is that the domestic electronic dictionary industry in Japan is in a whole different league design-wise from their Chinese counterparts - this not only means that the competition's better but it also means that they've put in the effort to lock down a lot of the best Japanese-English dictionaries in exclusive license agreements. So assembling something equivalent to Pleco for Japanese would take years of work and tons and tons of money just on the licensing end alone.

Plus, I don't know Japanese, and while I'd love an excuse to spend a tax-deductible 6 months in Japan learning it I don't know if that's really the best move in terms of Pleco's business :)
 

jlg84

Member
If I may just reiterate my earlier (months ago!) comment, the ONE THING my iPhone lacks is Pleco! I keep checking the Apps page on iTunes in hope of finding my beloved Pleco there, but so far have of course only been disappointed. I even went so far as to try Dianhua, which seemed to be promising, but it is a far cry from Pleco. And today I see there is some other pretender out there, but I am going to hold off...for now...in the vain hope that Pleco will soon grace the pages of the iTunes Apps! Maybe it'll speed things along if I tell you that it's my birthday on Sept 25...???
 

ipsi

状元
I hate to destroy your hopes like this, but given they're still working on 2.0, I can't imagine that they've even started on an iPhone version, let alone have it ready by the 25th... Of course, I could be wrong, but it's pretty unlikely...

Best guess from an outsider is several months...
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Nope, all we've done on iPhone so far is verify that the handwriting recognizer we licensed for it actually works. We can't start working on it in earnest until 2.0 is finished on Palm / Windows Mobile, and even after that there'll probably be at least a few weeks where most of our effort is going to putting together a bug-fix release / dealing with the massive inflow of support e-mail.
 
@jlg84

Although I hope that ipsi's prediction is incorrect you'll have to be patient (my young padawan :wink: ).
I personally can't wait for the iPhone version, and I can only hope that it'll be released while I'm still in Beijing.

By the way, Mike.
I know the dictionarys are Chinese-English with the possibility to integrate that HanDeDict into Pleco, but if there is interest in a german localised Version, I'd be happy to help in any way possible.
You know, I've got a Macbook Pro standing around here 8) that might be used for sth. else than to watch House MD :mrgreen:
(BTW, the new season began two days ago. Woohoo.)
 

severina

Member
I just wanted to say your app is the best thing to ever happen to handhelds. I am waiting (impatiently, but waiting happily) for an iphone version to add to my arsenal. I would gladly even purchase it outright even though I am the proud owner of a windows mobile ipaq with it. :)

michelle
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Well it would be nice, but absent an official policy we won't know if it applies to us until we submit the finished application.
 
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