2nd page of definition not showing up in flashcard

Marc

举人
Best is I show you an example: 里 in flashcards mapped to TCE. So the first dictionary definition showing up is the one of TCE. TCE has 2 definition pages for 里 but only one is showing up at first (no "down" button at the bottom). Only if I step through all the dictionaries with the button at the bottom and finally return to TCE I can reach the second definition page with the "down" button.

I am not a fan of those multi-pages definitions. (Sometimes I do not realize there is more than one page.) Why do they exist? Why not put all on one scrollable page? I think some definitions work this way, but some have a 2nd or even more pages.
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Usually they exist as separate items because both have headwords that differ slightly and might not come up together in every context (e.g. one might be linked from somewhere and the other might not be). If you turn on the "+ for each definition" option you'll see a separate + button for the second definition so that you can add it to its own flashcard.

This should be addressed in the big "fields" flashcard update, when it'll be possible for a card to link to multiple dictionary definitions at the same time and we'll be doing that by default in these cases.
 

Marc

举人
Thanks for the explanation. Looking forward to that big "fields" flashcard update. If I understand you right it will merge the multiple definitions onto one page by default.

Does this mean for now the missing first page won't be fixed?
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
For now, you'd want to create separate cards with both definitions, or switch the card to a dictionary that only has one. It isn't strictly 'missing,' we skip it because we assume that you wanted a card based on this specific definition; it shows up when you cycle back through because at that point you've indicated you wanted to see other takes from other dictionaries.
 

Marc

举人
I would agree if a link from another page specifically called that definition. But in the flashcards situation I beg to differ. Flashcards (usually) get picked randomly; the assumption that I wanted a card based on that specific definition seems a bit odd to me. I just want a random card with a random headword so I can try to recollect all the possible definitions. The suggestion to create separate cards wouldn't help as I wouldn't be able to know which meaning (page) a randomly picked card asked me for because the headwords would be the same. Therefore I do not see why right now the "down" arrow is hidden at first; it gives me the wrong impression that there is only one definition to learn for that headword and in order to find out whether there is more I need to cycle through the different dictionaries. In my humble opinion this is a bug.

Nevertheless I have to accept your decision to not change it until the problem gets solved by that announced big "fields" flashcard update. It means I will have to check each flashcard for possible additional definitions by cycling through the dictionaries and if so I will have to remap that card to a different all-in-one-page definition in a dictionary I otherwise might not prefer.
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Entries like this are generally quite rare - TCE happens to have a lot of them but that's mostly an editorial issue, we haven't yet gone through and combined them as we have in other dictionaries with the same problem. (we were kind of under the gun on it due to some contractual deadlines) So in the not-too-distant future there should be a TCE update that combines entries with identical characters + pinyin. And there's support for merging entries in our database system, so any card that pointed to either TCE definition for 里 would now point to the combined definition in this new update.

The arrow buttons might theoretically be a workaround for this, but it's really not what they're designed for - most of the time when those buttons show up it's because there are different pronunciations available, just as in the popup reader, in which case the choice to make a card based on a particular one is more deliberate - if you've got a card for 得 you'd be presented with a whole bunch of totally unrelated definitions for other pronunciations of 得, which probably aren't what you want. And I hate loading extra functions onto things because it makes it harder for us to change them later - if we leave TCE untouched and everybody starts getting used to flipping through different definition parts with the arrow buttons, now supporting that is a design constraint on any future changes to that dictionary flipping function. (which we had actually considered doing away with entirely in favor of something more akin to the current definition screen)
 
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Marc

举人
Alright, I will wait patiently. I may greatly underestimate the effort needed to add that arrow button. I will be happy, too, when the multiple-pages definitions are gone altogether. Thanks for your explanation - it is appreciated.
BTW: One of the several reasons why I like TCE is that it just delivers the most important definitions.
 
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