Mac OS 10.5.4 not Chinese enough -- please help

[feng]

Hi Folks,

Last summer and this summer I used a Mac. Very nice, but I had a few major problems relating to Chinese or China.

1) Some emails and web pages display with overlapping text. This is more prevalent with simplified characters. However, it does not always happen. I can get an email from friend A in China, typed in simplified characters on a Windows XP computer and read it; I get an email from friend B, simplified/XP, and it looks like stacked transparencies. If I cut and paste friend B's email into Pages, it displays fine.

For friend A's email, though it starts out fine, if I start hitting return in the various places in their original text to reply, it often gets wacky: moves stuff without my say-so, doesn't move/delete stuff I tell it to.

2) Mac OS 10.5 (10.5.4) is better than 10.4 for typing Chinese, especially noticeable being the ease of typing in traditional characters (basically all I do), but both Tiger and Leopard have the same problem with display. Sometimes when I type in a web form or browser search bar or email, if I backspace or delete a section, part or all of it will remain there, yet when I send the email or hit return to search, it is usually not there, but sometimes it is. Pretty annoying.

I can't remember if it happened when typing in traditional characters (though see number 1, friend A, above for why it is still a hassle (ie their simplified characters causing a problem)). I've tried all sorts of switching encoding both in "view" and in "preferences".

3) Some Chinese web sites, such as taobao.com, alipay.com, and the individual Qzones on QQ will only work properly (or display at all in the case of Qzone) on IE or Maxthon (when using Windows), not Firefox, Safari, or Opera on a Mac (or Windows) -- as far as I have found. IE ain't makin' a Mac version and last I checked Maxthon doesn't have one. Google is working on a Mac version of Chrome, but no telling when that will be out and whether it will work for the above.

I would appreciate any input on any of the above three problems. Thank you

 

[ldolse]

Regarding the browsers, that's more China's fault than Apple's. 99.999% of Chinese ONLY use IE, and nearly every website in China is also designed to ONLY work with IE. They use all sorts of proprietary microsoft controls in their site designs. You'll just have to use parallels, vmware, or boot camp. (which is what the Chinese I've met who own macs do).

 

[feng]

Thank you!

You are of course entirely correct, but it is then more inconvenient to do one's Chinese Internauting with a Mac. I know what boot camp is (though don't know how well it works these days). Pardon my naivete, but what are parallels and vmware?

Anyone know about the text issues (items 1 and 2) in my original post?

 

[radioman]

Mac w/ Chinese and Firefox
I use a Mac w/10.5.4, and know this is a challenge. Even the Mac QQ client is a shadow of the more full featured PC client.

I was trying out various browsers on the sites you mentioned, and no problems jumped out at me (but I only spent a few seconds). I would be interested myself if you had some specific links under Firefox that just "fall apart".

A few points below.

Parallels sits on top of the MAC OS (I think), and allows you to load an operating system on it (e.g., Windows XP) that appears to work quite well overall (but still not perfect... because its XP ). I have it and use it. The legit route will cost you about $100 US, plus or minus. I see it on ebay for $75. The program allows XP to take over the peripherals (e.g., disc drives, network connections), or to share them. XP on my Apple runs better than XP on my Windows machines. Its actually quite elegant.

The nice thing about Parallels as opposed to Bootcamp is you can pop open a Parallels window with your other Mac windows. With Bootcamp, you are just launching XP or Mac (I do not think you can run both simultaneously like with Parallels).

As for email under native Mac (or XP for that matter), maybe not solving your problem but I use Gmail with Firefox, and it seems to bring in Chinese just fine. The other Chinese language advantage to using the web browser based email is that I can use Chinese Parakun or Hanzibar, and can mouse over anything in the browser. (Parakun lets you save words that you mouseover) Useful for me as I still have a lot to learn.

Also just an FYI on Skype if you use it. For chats, I utilize Firefox with the following link http://s4iphone.com/iphone/home.jsp rather than the Skype client as, once in the browser, I can again use Chinese Parakun or Hanzibar. For phone calls, I still use the Skype client. Other IM services could be run through meebo.com.

Things I am looking for

*** Program for Macs that will allow you to mouse over non-browser applications (e.g., Skype client text message sessions).

*** A utility for Mac (or XP?) that will allow the cutting of any Chinese text into the clipboard and have it immediately throw it to translate.google.com or some other translation engine? I want to be able to translate phrases and sentences. Insights appreciated.

Ed.

###

 

[feng]

Thanks, Ed.

So Parallels is the name of one specific program, not a genre?

I was trying out various browsers on the sites you mentioned, and no problems jumped out at me (but I only spent a few seconds). I would be interested myself if you had some specific links under Firefox that just "fall apart".

Can you sign in and fully use taobao.com or alipay.com with Firefox? Can you view someone's Qzone? I can't do any of those with Firefox, Safari, or Opera -- even on a Windows machine (but with Windows I can just click on IE or Maxthon and open those things that don't work with Firefox).

Even the Mac QQ client is a shadow of the more full featured PC client.

Can't even use a web cam or modify ones own info.

I use Gmail with Firefox

So do I. Interesting. No problems when I am in Windows, just Mac problems.

Steve Jobs, listen up! Next year sometime I am going to by a computer. I think Mac has a lot going for it, but the poor Chinese language/Chinese web site compatibility is making it a no buy at this point. No problems with Japanese. Why can't the Mac do Chinese right?

 

[radioman]

Yes, Parallels is an actually program/utility.

Parallels can be found at: http://www.parallels.com/ You can probably find it retail or other places on the net.

I will check out the sites. I do not have a problem with my Mac under Firefox and using Gmail. I have installed any and all East Asian Fonts, and typically type using U.S. or ITABC.

I have a QQ account but have not gone to QQzone, can I go in and just use my QQ account?

 

[feng]

http://user.qzone.qq.com/(deleted for privacy)
Can you open that page? What do you see?

 

[feng]

This is what it looks like when it throws the text together.

Edit: I just looked again and the original email is fine, but it is the reply window that has the above. Not sure if this is always the case. I will check. (still using a mac at the moment) Still using Firefox with Gmail.

 

[radioman]

Greg - My mac is in the shop today. I get it tomorrow and will check out your links.

 

[ldolse]

I just get this error message with that QQ link, which just says I don't have access to that page...

<error>对不起，您无权访问该用户的日志</error>

 

[feng]

Thanks, Idolse.

对不起，您无权访问该用户的日志

That's because you are not using IE or Maxthon. It should have given you a screen with a pull down menu for questions (though I made statements) and a space below that for the answer. Though technically a browser problem, not really a problem with the Mac, since the two browsers that work aren't available for Mac, I see it as part of the Mac↔Chinese computing dilemma. Until it's solved maybe someone can at least come up with a catchy communist slogan about this to make us all feel better :mrgreen:

 

[radioman]

Looked at Camino, yada yada... looks like you need parallels...

Thanks, Idolse.

对不起，您无权访问该用户的日志

That's because you are not using IE or Maxthon. It should have given you a screen with a pull down menu for questions (though I made statements) and a space below that for the answer. Though technically a browser problem, not really a problem with the Mac, since the two browsers that work aren't available for Mac, I see it as part of the Mac↔Chinese computing dilemma. Until it's solved maybe someone can at least come up with a catchy communist slogan about this to make us all feel better :mrgreen:

 

[feng]

Looked at Camino, yada yada... looks like you need parallels...

Camino? We're not talking about the old half car, half truck here, are we?

If this were the only problem, I would consider a Mac, but the text reading and typing issues are the major problem. Has no one else encountered these?

 

[radioman]

Ok so I was trying various browsers, but it is clear that the programmers were writing for XP/Explorer.

So, I loaded service pack 2 today as well as XP ... I have attached the screen shot of your link and my Mac OS working in reasonable harmony....

http://senduit.com/b8545f

The link is good for a week or so if you want take a look. I will let you know how seemless things are under SP2.

 

[ldolse]

You can use Parallel's in Coherence mode to make it more seamless as well - then you could just clear the windows desktop except for an IE icon and launch IE as if you were on the mac. I'm not a big coherence fan myself, prefer to put XP in it's own space, but that might be better if you're launching pages engineered for IE/Windows all the time.

Regarding your other two issues, I doubt that either of those are really Mac issues per-se, rather they're issues with those specific pieces of software. What is the mail program that you're using, and have you tried alternates? I use Entourage and haven't noticed this issue with Chinese emails I get from colleagues, but I have to admit I don't pay much attention to them, they're not directed to me, I just happen to be on the Chinese mailing lists.

The other wrapping issues sound like they could just be variations of the 1st and 3rd issues you mentioned - either a buggy email program or web apps designed specifically for IE on Windows.

 

[feng]

I have noticed that Firefox 3.0.4 and Opera 9.62 almost get there, Opera a little closer. You can go to a Qzone page. It looks fine at first. Blogs come in nonsense characters; change the encoding and you get sent back to the person's main page. Click on photo album and QQ says the system is busy, but I think that is just a response one gets when not using IE/Maxthon (long story why I think so), but maybe I am wrong and it will work another day. Let me know what luck you have.

 

[radioman]

Just a note for the Mac users that I just installed Parallels 4 and it seems to be much tighter than version 3 (I heard 30% processor efficiency improvement was added).

In the past, I was having problems when syncing with my Axim when runnning Windows on Parallels, as well as other quirks that drove me back to my Palm in native Mac. I can report back after I exercise it more, but the results so far look promising. Not looking to move to move to Windows Mobile at this point, but with the dominance of Windows XP for Chinese learning, thought it was worth posting.

i can also add that IMKQIM Pinyin Keyboard entry is really great add-on to the mac operating system.

 

[feng]

i can also add that IMKQIM Pinyin Keyboard entry is really great add-on to the mac operating system.

What is that?

 

[radioman]

Sorry, just saw the question. IMKQIM is an alternative pinyin input system that appears to be much smarter than the one included with Mac OS. Not sure, think it might cost a little money after a trial but nothing crazy. The following link I found provides some additional information http://osx.iusethis.com/app/imkqim