2.3 / User Interface Enhancements

[gato]

It's designed as more of a temporary overlay - turn it on, sketch something, turn it off, turn it back on again to compare to the results. We hadn't really envisioned people leaving it on all the time - is that what you're doing?

I am using it to memorize writing characters. I have it set at self-grade. With the pinyin and definition as the prompt, I try to write the character in the sketch box and grade myself on whether I got it right.

To be honest, aside from making it look a little cleaner we're not planning a whole lot of immediate changes to the flashcard session interface layout - it's far and away the part of Pleco's UI that people seem to have the fewest issues with.

Do you have any data on the percentage of Pleco users who use the flashcard function? Is it possible that people who find the flashcards too complicated don't use it and therefore don't have any questions. I saw that one poll done a year ago here for Android, in which about 45 people answered, and only 3 said that they don't use the flashcards at all. I wonder if that's representative of all users.

Now that I am using the flashcards again, I think there are things that can be done to hide the complexity (mostly having the most likely to be used settings up front and hiding the others). For example, I don't understand why "card selection" is so far down in the menu choices.

The profile concept can be a great way of simplifying things for the novice. The manual says that Pleco comes with 3 profiles: Simple, Weighted, and Space Repetition. But mine only shows a default profile. Do you know why that is?

I think having a starter profile for testing reading and another for testing writing would be useful. To reduce the clutter and hide complexity, I would hide some of lesser used settings in "manage profile" so that you need to invoke manage profile to see and change these settings.

 

[mikelove]

I am using it to memorize writing characters. I have it set at self-grade. With the pinyin and definition as the prompt, I try to write the character in the sketch box and grade myself on whether I got it right.

Makes sense; wouldn't be too hard to add an option to have it open on test startup. Or we could just remember its previous state, I suppose.

Do you have any data on the percentage of Pleco users who use the flashcard function? Is it possible that people who find the flashcards too complicated don't use it and therefore don't have any questions. I saw that one poll done a year ago here for Android, in which about 45 people answered, and only 3 said that they don't use the flashcards at all. I wonder if that's representative of all users.

Certainly possible, which is why I'd like to make the configuration settings easier, but my comment was specifically on the flashcard testing interface - I don't think that's an area that a lot of people have problems with mainly because we get so few questions on it relative to the number of questions we get about configuration.

Now that I am using the flashcards again, I think there are things that can be done to hide the complexity (mostly having the most likely to be used settings up front and hiding the others). For example, I don't understand why "card selection" is so far down in the menu choices.

Ah, well that gets right into why this is so difficult - what other options do you think should be below it? I'd actually say it's one of the scariest / least beginner-friendly screens - a couple of very confusing options there. And is "likelihood of novice users wanting to change these settings" really the only thing we should pay attention to, or might we also want to consider how frequently a more experienced user is going to want to access it? (Card Filters, e.g.)

The profile concept can be a great way of simplifying things for the novice. The manual says that Pleco comes with 3 profiles: Simple, Weighted, and Space Repetition. But mine only shows a default profile. Do you know why that is?

You've got an old database that predates the introduction of those profiles - if you create a new profile and then reset its settings to defaults, you should see the option to give it any one of those sets of settings.

I think having a starter profile for testing reading and another for testing writing would be useful. To reduce the clutter and hide complexity, I would hide some of lesser used settings in "manage profile" so that you need to invoke manage profile to see and change these settings.

Actually those I tend to think we don't need profiles for, since they're right on the main screen - the reason the profiles are tailored towards different review strategies is because those are harder for new users to customize. What we really might need is a way to make learning strategies so easy to select that you no longer need a profile for those either.

 

[character]

In the flashcard section, when listing the cards in a category, tap-hold doesn't seem to add the selected card to the default category. Adding that behavior would be very helpful when creating categories which are subsets.

 

[mikelove]

In the flashcard section, when listing the cards in a category, tap-hold doesn't seem to add the selected card to the default category. Adding that behavior would be very helpful when creating categories which are subsets.

Interesting idea... shouldn't be too hard to implement, I'm just a little worried it might confuse people. But probably worth having as an option at least... thanks.

 

[多伦多人]

Is there any option to play audio automatically upon viewing a dictionary entry (similar to "Auto-play on show" in Flashcard Testing > Test Settings)? If this option doesn't exist yet, would you consider implementing it in future versions?

 

[insighter]

I've been using the score based selection test method with varying prompts that you suggested earlier as a way to learn a card wholistically (to recognize the pinyin and to write it). I'd also like to be able to test recognition within that same profile by adding a self test section in the score test step series. One could say that this is available if I set it to show character and prompt for pinyin, but it's too difficult to differentiate between knowing the pinyin and knowing the definition.

Btw, I saw your general announcement for iPod / iPhone do thanks for that. Never knew you could draw a mean fish.

 

[mikelove]

Is there any option to play audio automatically upon viewing a dictionary entry (similar to "Auto-play on show" in Flashcard Testing > Test Settings)? If this option doesn't exist yet, would you consider implementing it in future versions?

Not an option yet, but certainly possible for the future - what would be the exact trigger? Tapping on it to view its definition? What about on an iPad / landscape-oriented iPhone, where a definition comes up as you enter the search term without having to tap on a specific entry - when would we play it on those?

I've been using the score based selection test method with varying prompts that you suggested earlier as a way to learn a card wholistically (to recognize the pinyin and to write it). I'd also like to be able to test recognition within that same profile by adding a self test section in the score test step series. One could say that this is available if I set it to show character and prompt for pinyin, but it's too difficult to differentiate between knowing the pinyin and knowing the definition.

That's something we've been looking at, yes - next logical step for score-based selection is to let you vary the "test type" too, we just wanted to get firmly in place on our new platforms first since that actually involves a lot of UI work (need the interface to be able to heavily reconfigure itself in the middle of a test).

Btw, I saw your general announcement for iPod / iPhone do thanks for that. Never knew you could draw a mean fish.

Heh, thanks! The little guy's had quite a lot of staying power...

 

[insighter]

That's something we've been looking at, yes - next logical step for score-based selection is to let you vary the "test type" too, we just wanted to get firmly in place on our new platforms first since that actually involves a lot of UI work (need the interface to be able to heavily reconfigure itself in the middle of a test).

Cool, good to hear. I usually avoid asking this question but because it's something that I'll be especially looking forward to I was wondering if you could comment on whether this would be in a 2.3, 2.4 or further update.

Two more quick comments though on flashcard UI though. One, I know I've mentioned it in the past but I'm going to re-plug my support for a removable button options in the flashcard UI interface. I understand that as a design philosophy of full customization probably leads to sub-par products, but I feel if you can have the option to hide a button with a clear use like 'delete', why not include one for a button that has a somewhat obscure use like the 'change score'. I have delete card on default and with four buttons total it gets cramped. Being able to reduce the number of buttons back down to three wouldn't be a stretch to the UI interface at all.

Two, previously you recommended that I set my 'default categories' to the current category as a way to turn the toggle categories button into one which could add/remove a card button with a single tap. Just wanted to let that function doesn't work if you have a card in a folder three layers down or more. As an example, if I try and toggle a card within "Textbook Series" within "Textbook Title" within "Chapter" it will only allow you to add or subtract from cards within the "Textbook Title" folder.

 

[多伦多人]

Not an option yet, but certainly possible for the future - what would be the exact trigger? Tapping on it to view its definition? What about on an iPad / landscape-oriented iPhone, where a definition comes up as you enter the search term without having to tap on a specific entry - when would we play it on those?

Thanks for the fast reply.

I was thinking that the trigger would be the opening of any Chinese entry. So for example, say I have the current dictionary set to PLC and type "电@", then tap 电棒; at this point the entry "(dialect) (electric) torch; flashlight" is displayed and, with the auto-pronounce option enabled, dian4bang4 would be played automatically. (Then if I tap the down arrow, the entry 电报 comes up, and dian4bao4 would be played automatically; etc.)

Also, when viewing an entry screen and tapping a Chinese character, the definition of the character (or word, if it's part of one) is popped up in a mini-window; it would be great to have the ability to play the audio for that character/word automatically as well, without having to tap the audio button each time.

 

[mikelove]

Cool, good to hear. I usually avoid asking this question but because it's something that I'll be especially looking forward to I was wondering if you could comment on whether this would be in a 2.3, 2.4 or further update.

Not 2.3 as that's primarily dictionary-centered, possibly 2.4 but more likely a later one - 2.4 is very flashcard-centric, but other features like auto-advance, iCloud sync, and custom audio / images / fields are much more popular requests so we kind of have to focus on them first.

Two more quick comments though on flashcard UI though. One, I know I've mentioned it in the past but I'm going to re-plug my support for a removable button options in the flashcard UI interface. I understand that as a design philosophy of full customization probably leads to sub-par products, but I feel if you can have the option to hide a button with a clear use like 'delete', why not include one for a button that has a somewhat obscure use like the 'change score'. I have delete card on default and with four buttons total it gets cramped. Being able to reduce the number of buttons back down to three wouldn't be a stretch to the UI interface at all.

I suppose customizing those ones at least might make sense - any other transformation you're likely to want to make frequently? Maybe a second category button? As long as we're making it customizable we should probably make it fully customizable.

Two, previously you recommended that I set my 'default categories' to the current category as a way to turn the toggle categories button into one which could add/remove a card button with a single tap. Just wanted to let that function doesn't work if you have a card in a folder three layers down or more. As an example, if I try and toggle a card within "Textbook Series" within "Textbook Title" within "Chapter" it will only allow you to add or subtract from cards within the "Textbook Title" folder.

I just tested that and it seemed to work fine here - did you set this in the "Commands" tab in Flashcard Testing? Are you sure that you actually chose it correctly (so the name of the lowest-level category shows up on that "Default" settings item)?

 

[insighter]

I suppose customizing those ones at least might make sense - any other transformation you're likely to want to make frequently? Maybe a second category button? As long as we're making it customizable we should probably make it fully customizable.

Nothing too pressing for me personally, but since you ask I think there are two routes. Simple flashcards applications are dime a dozen, so I think your challenge is to make flashcards/SRS more useful and efficient as a tool to learn Chinese in ways unique to Pleco. An efficiency improving one would be adding options to instantly access to some more buried functions that Pleco already has. But keeping your goal in mind it should maybe promote something that only Pleco has, for example automated character radical breakdown. When I have trouble remembering a card I often look at the radicals analysis page under 字 to try and finding meaning in the radicals it contains or to create a mnemonic. No other app does this I think, so otherwise you need to go to yellowbridge or zhongwen.com. That is unique to you and probably improves memorization efficiency.

Adding other buttons that would link to other deeper functions more quickly might be useful too (statistics, edit card text, etc.) but I haven't particularly wanted one. Not sure what that second category button you mentioned would do though.

The second path would be to use this to highlight something completely new or innovative feature that (maybe) only Pleco can provide. Flashcards have many benefits as a study tool, but also have some drawbacks. A big one I've found is that they they lack context so it is possible to learn a card (how to recognize, write, the pinyin, audio, etc.) but still not be sure how to use it. Therefore the button could be used as a quickly way look up lots of example sentences. I know that when I don't know how to use a word I would love to read 10+ example sentences, arguably somewhat edited so they weren't too redundant in their uses. Therefore this button could maybe lead to a location where all dictionary example sentences were collected for a certain word headword. Even though dictionary examples can sometimes be a little archaic or limited in number I think this would still be useful.

In terms of how to expand something like this, I like nciku's approach to having more numerous and modern example sentences (from what sources I'm not really sure though). This may be a function of having a strong web-site presence (this may be an area you are headed....?) or looser editing controls, idk. Even the ability to use this button to "tag" a sample sentence to a flashcard (entry?) would be useful. I know you can edit the card's text, but I think the definition and example sentence cann't be differentiated at this point. Anyways, a function like this would arguably improve your app's usefulness (the ability to also learn how to use the word) as well as efficiency (being able to learn the world more quickly by providing context).

I just tested that and it seemed to work fine here - did you set this in the "Commands" tab in Flashcard Testing? Are you sure that you actually chose it correctly (so the name of the lowest-level category shows up on that "Default" settings item)?

Ahh, I know what the problem is. My profile is testing a whole book at a time, so there are 23 categories (chapters) that contain cards which are currently being tested on. I could set it to the chapter 12 category, but all other cards outside that category wouldn't be able to use this function in the correct manner. If I had the cards all inside one folder and not divided up by chapter then that would solve the problem. Perhaps there is a way to accommodate my situation, but I'm sure there is/is worth trying to

 

[mikelove]

Nothing too pressing for me personally, but since you ask I think there are two routes. Simple flashcards applications are dime a dozen, so I think your challenge is to make flashcards/SRS more useful and efficient as a tool to learn Chinese in ways unique to Pleco. An efficiency improving one would be adding options to instantly access to some more buried functions that Pleco already has. But keeping your goal in mind it should maybe promote something that only Pleco has, for example automated character radical breakdown. When I have trouble remembering a card I often look at the radicals analysis page under 字 to try and finding meaning in the radicals it contains or to create a mnemonic. No other app does this I think, so otherwise you need to go to yellowbridge or zhongwen.com. That is unique to you and probably improves memorization efficiency.

Oh yes, we really need to expand on that feature now that we're done with porting and can concentrate on new stuff again. Getting to character info more efficiently would be nice, but it doesn't really fit in thematically with those buttons (which generally related to "changing things about cards") so I'm not sure if it's a good idea to put it on that toolbar.

Adding other buttons that would link to other deeper functions more quickly might be useful too (statistics, edit card text, etc.) but I haven't particularly wanted one. Not sure what that second category button you mentioned would do though.

It would give you a one-button way to add a card to another category, if you (for example) wanted two different ways to "flag" problem cards.

The second path would be to use this to highlight something completely new or innovative feature that (maybe) only Pleco can provide. Flashcards have many benefits as a study tool, but also have some drawbacks. A big one I've found is that they they lack context so it is possible to learn a card (how to recognize, write, the pinyin, audio, etc.) but still not be sure how to use it. Therefore the button could be used as a quickly way look up lots of example sentences. I know that when I don't know how to use a word I would love to read 10+ example sentences, arguably somewhat edited so they weren't too redundant in their uses. Therefore this button could maybe lead to a location where all dictionary example sentences were collected for a certain word headword. Even though dictionary examples can sometimes be a little archaic or limited in number I think this would still be useful.

In terms of how to expand something like this, I like nciku's approach to having more numerous and modern example sentences (from what sources I'm not really sure though). This may be a function of having a strong web-site presence (this may be an area you are headed....?) or looser editing controls, idk. Even the ability to use this button to "tag" a sample sentence to a flashcard (entry?) would be useful. I know you can edit the card's text, but I think the definition and example sentence cann't be differentiated at this point. Anyways, a function like this would arguably improve your app's usefulness (the ability to also learn how to use the word) as well as efficiency (being able to learn the world more quickly by providing context).

Again, doesn't fit with that particular button well but having this linked in somewhere makes a lot of sense - we've been planning for some time now to add the ability to instantly pull example sentences for a word from all of our various dictionaries onto a single handy screen, it's just taking us forever to add the necessary tagging to our data files. But once that's done it should actually be quite easy.

Ahh, I know what the problem is. My profile is testing a whole book at a time, so there are 23 categories (chapters) that contain cards which are currently being tested on. I could set it to the chapter 12 category, but all other cards outside that category wouldn't be able to use this function in the correct manner. If I had the cards all inside one folder and not divided up by chapter then that would solve the problem. Perhaps there is a way to accommodate my situation, but I'm sure there is/is worth trying to

Ah yes, at the moment that feature does only search for an exact category rather than for a category and the sub-categories under it - in general we designed this around the scenario that someone would use the regular category selection screen to deal with textbook chapters and such and "require" or "exclude" other parameters like formal / spoken / hard words / easy words / words that'll be on the test / etc.

 

[rcloud]

I am loving using the new URL launching, but after using the feature extensively today it has lead to a GUI request for 2.3...

Would it be possible to add a setting that would allow the user to turn off the intro splash screen?

 

[mikelove]

Would it be possible to add a setting that would allow the user to turn off the intro splash screen?

What would you like in its place? It's showing up while iOS unpacks and launches our app, so there's no way we could skip it and go directly to the app, or even put up (say) an image of what you were doing in Pleco before - all we do is stick an image file in our application and tell iOS that that's the file it should display while our app loads.

We could put up a generic version of our UI (with no data in it) as some apps do, but given that we're planning to make "restore last tab" the default behavior in 2.3, making the UI sufficiently generic to match whatever screen it might be followed by would be tricky.

 

[rcloud]

What I was thinking about was when Pleco is running in the background and is launched via another app. The splash screen loads for an split second, whereas if you were to to relaunch Pleco by just clicking on its icon again it loads without a splash screen.

Is this just a limitation on Apple's side when launching an app from a URL or is it possible to bypass the splash screen in these instances?

 

[radioman]

This is an interesting problem.

I will tell I use the clipboard call all the time, where I run an external program that then writes to the clipboard. I open Pleco and the info is read in and processed, with no splashscreen. It works great. And using the program "QuickDo" (a cydia hack that costs about 7 dollars, but well worth it in my view), I do not even have to use the home button - no wear and tear. I was concerned early on about the splashscreen, but delighted to see under this scenario that no splash screen would come up.

BUT, when I do use the URL call, there is indeed a splash screen that loads.

You might be able to "hack" the slashscreen to a black color, but out the window goes any Pleco or iOS warranties.

As for Apple side limitations in their iOS, sure sounds like it is, but I'm no expert.

I would be interested to under what circumstances you are using this URL call.

What I was thinking about was when Pleco is running in the background and is launched via another app. The splash screen loads for an split second, whereas if you were to to relaunch Pleco by just clicking on its icon again it loads without a splash screen.

Is this just a limitation on Apple's side when launching an app from a URL or is it possible to bypass the splash screen in these instances?

 

[rcloud]

I am using it in Anki for reviewing flashcards. I have the URL inserted in a template so I can just click on a character and it then launches that character in Pleco when I need further clarification.

It sounds like you are using Quickdo in the manner I was using activator before. The problem I had was I would have to manually copy the character to the clipboard.

It does seem like the splash screen showing is forced by apple when called by a URL from another program, but I'm sure Mike knows much better than me. Mike, do you (or anyone else) know if there is any way to alter the URL that tells ios that program is running in the background and thus avoids the splash screen?

 

[radioman]

Oh I see. Well I use Flashcards Deluxe, which automatically writes each card face to the clipboard. So the only thing I do with Quickdo is to switch to Pleco and back. Everything else is handled.

I am using it in Anki for reviewing flashcards. I have the URL inserted in a template so I can just click on a character and it then launches that character in Pleco when I need further clarification.

It sounds like you are using Quickdo in the manner I was using activator before. The problem I had was I would have to manually copy the character to the clipboard.

It does seem like the splash screen showing is forced by apple when called by a URL from another program, but I'm sure Mike knows much better than me. Mike, do you (or anyone else) know if there is any way to alter the URL that tells ios that program is running in the background and thus avoids the splash screen?

 

[rcloud]

I have suggested that feature to Anki's creator in case there is nothing Mike can do to work around this issue.

 

[mikelove]

What I was thinking about was when Pleco is running in the background and is launched via another app. The splash screen loads for an split second, whereas if you were to to relaunch Pleco by just clicking on its icon again it loads without a splash screen.

Is this just a limitation on Apple's side when launching an app from a URL or is it possible to bypass the splash screen in these instances?

That's on Apple's side - no way around it AFAIK. They did introduce a new system for handling URL launches in iOS 4.2 that we're switching over to for 2.3 (so many things become possible once we stop supporting iOS 3 users...) but until we actually try it we won't know whether or not that makes any improvement in the splash screen situation - in general I'm somewhat skeptical that it would.

It does seem like the splash screen showing is forced by apple when called by a URL from another program, but I'm sure Mike knows much better than me. Mike, do you (or anyone else) know if there is any way to alter the URL that tells ios that program is running in the background and thus avoids the splash screen?

None that I'm aware of - if you've got an iOS developer account you could file a bug report on it, though.